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This audio cable business is getting out of hand...

SIY

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None of the reviewer's opinions in your link have any value whatsoever...is that a correct assumption?
There’s no doubt that Japanese culture and the pervasive respect, in Japan, for artisanal work has had a tremendous influence upon me while I’ve been here – I feel more at home in this atmosphere, for instance, than in the strict mercantilism and industrialism that seems part and parcel of modern Western business culture.

Res ipsa loquitur.
 
D

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There’s no doubt that Japanese culture and the pervasive respect, in Japan, for artisanal work has had a tremendous influence upon me while I’ve been here – I feel more at home in this atmosphere, for instance, than in the strict mercantilism and industrialism that seems part and parcel of modern Western business culture.

Res ipsa loquitur.
Sed non condolebit
 

BDWoody

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Hypnotoad

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It seems manufacturers must lay awake at night thinking up catchy names for their cables/interconnects:

Nordost Red Dawn LEIF Power
Nordost Solar Wind RCA
Siltech Royal Signature Princess RCA
Wireworld Gold Starlight Coax
Shunyata E TRON Cobra Power
Atlas Ascent Mk ii OCC Speaker
Shunyata Anaconda Alpha Power
 
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It seems manufacturers must lay awake at night thinking up catchy names for their cables/interconnects:

Nordost Red Dawn LEIF Power
Nordost Solar Wind RCA
Siltech Royal Signature Princess RCA
Wireworld Gold Starlight Coax
Shunyata E TRON Cobra Power
Atlas Ascent Mk ii OCC Speaker
Shunyata Anaconda Alpha Power
And their claim of the Golden ratio of multi sized strands that eliminates resonance pattern between the strands which will affect the bass, mids and treble response. A lot of manufacturers often cite those things where a multi-sized strands in Litz wiring (skin effect) would dramatically improve sound

Very nice "technical expertise" claims from them. I bet if a unbiased person did a double blind a/b between those and some tinsel wire, there would be zero difference whatsoever in sound perception
 
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I got tired of using my long RCA cables to interconnect small DACs and Amps so decided to get a short one. Saw one on Amazon (by "World's Best Cables') that used Canare Star-Quad cable and Amphenol connectors for just $22 shipped. My time was worth much more than that to make one so I ordered it. It came promptly. When I opened though, I was shocked to see this massive sign in there:

View attachment 27076

Are you kidding me? Even a low-cost cable using proper material spreads such a myth?

It is one thing to see this on multi-thousand dollar cables but on a $22 one?

Inside there is an instruction sheet and it says that again. To their credit they acknowledge that such burn-in will take out of Amazon's 30 day return window so they provide instructions on how to still get a return.

The danger here is that such practices will spread to the general public, not just high-end audiophiles.

Yes, it is also "directional" although here, it is due to the way they utilize the shield at one end so that bit is fine.

Uhh-humm:

(RE: " ...Are you kidding me? Even a low-cost cable using proper material spreads such a myth? )

Is this you speaking amirm ? A myth (break-in/directionality) ?

" ...It is one thing to see this on multi-thousand dollar cables but on a $22 one? "

'It's one thing' (i.e. expensive vs. $22.) -please explain how that would matter ?

peter jasz
 
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Uhh-humm:

(RE: " ...Are you kidding me? Even a low-cost cable using proper material spreads such a myth? )

Is this you speaking amirm ? A myth (break-in/directionality) ?

" ...It is one thing to see this on multi-thousand dollar cables but on a $22 one? "

'It's one thing' (i.e. expensive vs. $22.) -please explain how that would matter ?

peter jasz
"It's one thing" is meant here to indicate surprise--it's not often low dollar cables spread cable myths so prominently. Break-in is the myth here--directionality is a property of the cable @amirm purchased, due to bonding of the shield at one end and not the other.
 
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BDWoody

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Uhh-humm:

(RE: " ...Are you kidding me? Even a low-cost cable using proper material spreads such a myth? )

Is this you speaking amirm ? A myth (break-in/directionality) ?

" ...It is one thing to see this on multi-thousand dollar cables but on a $22 one? "

'It's one thing' (i.e. expensive vs. $22.) -please explain how that would matter ?

peter jasz

It's part of the religion for the expensive ones.

It also gives them a way to tell the customer not to return them right away when they don't hear the magic. It may not sound any better now, but give your brain time to burn in the idea that these must be better, and sure enough...

Those who buy cheaper, competent cables, buy them precisely because they know they are adequate for the job. They don't need to listen with a dose of snake oil.
 

amirm

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Uhh-humm:

(RE: " ...Are you kidding me? Even a low-cost cable using proper material spreads such a myth? )

Is this you speaking amirm ? A myth (break-in/directionality) ?

" ...It is one thing to see this on multi-thousand dollar cables but on a $22 one? "

'It's one thing' (i.e. expensive vs. $22.) -please explain how that would matter ?

peter jasz
Companies selling expensive cables have a problem that someone may take them home and have it do nothing to sound. So they tell you to keep using them/burning them in. That will stop them from being returned immediately. Returning gear at a much later date becomes harder/more guilt ridden. So that by itself benefits the supplier. Importantly, our moods and attention to what is played changes over time and they can and usually get lucky with the listener all of a sudden thinking the cable is making a difference.

For a cable being sold for the cost of parts, none of this pandering is necessary. Nor would the typical customer buying them is into such concepts as "burn in." For these reasons, I thought it was an interesting juxtaposition to justify creating this thread.
 
D

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Companies selling expensive cables have a problem that someone may take them home and have it do nothing to sound. So they tell you to keep using them/burning them in. That will stop them from being returned immediately. Returning gear at a much later date becomes harder/more guilt ridden. So that by itself benefits the supplier. Importantly, our moods and attention to what is played changes over time and they can and usually get lucky with the listener all of a sudden thinking the cable is making a difference.

For a cable being sold for the cost of parts, none of this pandering is necessary. Nor would the typical customer buying them is into such concepts as "burn in." For these reasons, I thought it was an interesting juxtaposition to justify creating this thread.
Amir,I agree with you...the idea of hearing cables 'burn in' and immensely improve in SQ is usually nothing more than a marketing ploy...BUT I don't think we can state with 100% certainty that it is ALWAYS a marketing ploy. There are other variables involved, just as it has been shown that even moving some cables will impact their sound. Now whether this has to do with skin effects or some other type of change is hard to know, but I don't happen to think that all cables are immune to this issue.
One of the reasons that i had suggested the Black Cat cables is that Chris is not one of those people who is trying to 'fleece the sheep'( I think we would agree that the audio hobby is inundated with these type of hucksters). He has told me that his cables are not directional ( doesn't even believe in directionality ---although I differ with him here with certain designs, although not his) and doesn't suggest long burn in times either. That, plus I feel his Coppertone cables are more than fairly priced.
 

amirm

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That, plus I feel his Coppertone cables are more than fairly priced.
That's fair. Our standards here as far as pricing is much lower than high-end audiophiles and hence the reaction you got.
 

BDWoody

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Amir,I agree with you...the idea of hearing cables 'burn in' and immensely improve in SQ is usually nothing more than a marketing ploy...BUT I don't think we can state with 100% certainty that it is ALWAYS a marketing ploy. There are other variables involved, just as it has been shown that even moving some cables will impact their sound. Now whether this has to do with skin effects or some other type of change is hard to know, but I don't happen to think that all cables are immune to this issue.
One of the reasons that i had suggested the Black Cat cables is that Chris is not one of those people who is trying to 'fleece the sheep'( I think we would agree that the audio hobby is inundated with these type of hucksters). He has told me that his cables are not directional ( doesn't even believe in directionality ---although I differ with him here with certain designs, although not his) and doesn't suggest long burn in times either. That, plus I feel his Coppertone cables are more than fairly priced.
I dunno... $200 cables sound pretty fleecy. Being fleeced less than you could be, is still being fleeced.
 

amirm

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I dunno... $200 cables sound pretty fleecy. Being fleeced less than you could be, is still being fleeced.
If I had to build such cables by hand, even $200 would be too little to charge for them! If you want to rip people off and make lots of money, you would have to charge a lot more than this.

My ex-partner at another forum is selling coasters you put under your gear to supposedly make them sound better. Each coaster costs $300! You would need four of them for a cool $1,200 for each piece of audio gear. This kind of thing fits your definition much better than someone sitting there, cutting wire, soldering them, packaging them and selling for $200 and answer to his wife why he is doing this. :)
 

BDWoody

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Amir,I agree with you...the idea of hearing cables 'burn in' and immensely improve in SQ is usually nothing more than a marketing ploy...BUT I don't think we can state with 100% certainty that it is ALWAYS a marketing ploy. There are other variables involved, just as it has been shown that even moving some cables will impact their sound. Now whether this has to do with skin effects or some other type of change is hard to know, but I don't happen to think that all cables are immune to this issue.
One of the reasons that i had suggested the Black Cat cables is that Chris is not one of those people who is trying to 'fleece the sheep'( I think we would agree that the audio hobby is inundated with these type of hucksters). He has told me that his cables are not directional ( doesn't even believe in directionality ---although I differ with him here with certain designs, although not his) and doesn't suggest long burn in times either. That, plus I feel his Coppertone cables are more than fairly priced.
If I had to build such cables by hand, even $200 would be too little to charge for them! If you want to rip people off and make lots of money, you would have to charge a lot more than this.

My ex-partner at another forum is selling coasters you put under your gear to supposedly make them sound better. Each coaster costs $300! You would need four of them for a cool $1,200 for each piece of audio gear. This kind of thing fits your definition much better than someone sitting there, cutting wire, soldering them, packaging them and selling for $200 and answer to his wife why he is doing this. :)
I can accept that...i withdraw my snark directed towards the well meaning cable guy.
Now, where can I order those coasters!?
 

amirm

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D

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If I had to build such cables by hand, even $200 would be too little to charge for them! If you want to rip people off and make lots of money, you would have to charge a lot more than this.

My ex-partner at another forum is selling coasters you put under your gear to supposedly make them sound better. Each coaster costs $300! You would need four of them for a cool $1,200 for each piece of audio gear. This kind of thing fits your definition much better than someone sitting there, cutting wire, soldering them, packaging them and selling for $200 and answer to his wife why he is doing this. :)
Thank you for that! I can tell you that with the Coppertone cables, Chris is certainly NOT making his family rich on the proceeds! OTOH, your ex-partner, should be ashamed of himself IMO...but he has bought the total 'BS' from his manufacturer/partner and is claiming that these footers are the next coming. Regardless, the pricing seems outrageous to me and the description of how they work, even more so.
BTW, all of the folks who bought the first version of the CS' footers were in for a shock...it took no time at all for the revised and superior sounding version to come to the market...making all of the pricey first versions....'boat anchors'. Although, If I recall, your ex-partner did offer a trade in policy towards the newer version....for a short period of time...and of course at a price.
Question in my mind is this...and i have personally met your ex-partner and been to his house, is he one of the many 'hucksters' looking to fleece the wealthy a'phile ( like his partner), or is he simply misguided and innocent in his comprehension. I would like to think that he is the latter.
 
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