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This audio cable business is getting out of hand...

FrantzM

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I found this in an Audiogon thread on..."the science of cables". Ostensibly from cable manufacturer Teo Audio. For the life of me, I can't figure out whether this is sincere or a beautiful parody (like the hilarious Titania McGrath or Jarvis DuPont on Twitter).

In either event, hand-waving at quantum physics sure creates some room for nonsense. Teo claims to have liquid conductors. I understand Mercury and Gallium are liquid at room temperature, but not great conductors.

----quote----
as an aside just for the sheer annoyance factor of the easily excited on the buzzword front... molecular/atomic level fluids like the room temperature fluid metal alloys in Teo cables, are technically and in definition...to fall under quantum rules...and charged ionic systems like that of plasma (tubes) are considered to be classical.

This means.. the true fluid metal alloy in the Teo cables, while under signal loading... is constantly switching or sliding between being quantum and classical, with a indeterminate Schrodinger-like complexity, due to the high mass and atom to atom (electron orbital to electron orbital) ..where the loading is a radically discontinuous variable due to the high mass. The math is insane and very incomplete at this time in physics.

Ouch.

The tube kinda does the same but is mostly a stressed/loaded system while in-situ, so just about 100% classical, as it is, in operation, never really going to zero. One would think that the liquid metal cable is thus the same but the high mass vs that of the tube’s low mass constitution, makes the quantum connection in the metal fluid - considerably more real.

Importantly, none of this takes place with wire as the wire is in a frozen lattice form. In truth..some of it is still there but of such a minor dangling part, that it is not really ever included in any of the calculations - no point. Under certain stress and loading conditions it can be made to come to the fore, though.

It might be considered that the frozen lattice form of the structure of the ’wire’, gives rise to complex impedance, as we know it, as a set of lumped parameters. LCR is a lumped parameter, and that L, C, and R are each lumped parameters all on their own - when in full analysis.

Those lumped parameters, the LCR and the individual lumped L, C, and R, are for engineering or building. One has to go back to the theory as it is all theory when seeking solutions to complex layered problems. That is....if we can recognize the problem in the first place.

If one wishes to analyze problems in interpretation and projection into solution seeking or problems in observation vs measurement, then one should consider going down to those basics and analyze at the fundamental physics level. Otherwise one might find themselves going in circles, or arguing without understanding the actual questions at hand...

---endquote---


This scores high in the BS scale. Scores around 9.5 on a 1 to 10 scale.

Wow!
 

dkfan9

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I owe you and solderdude an apology. During the swap, the RME was powered down and the loudness feature that I was using was reset I.e. turned off. Switched back on and all is well :facepalm::facepalm: thank you for that amazing reply ! I can tell no difference between the cables using the aforementioned methods. I feel like a douche. The loudness was only 2db in the bass, and having it off made everything sound brighter I.e. more mid and top.



The plugs are good. A very solid fit. Much more so than my locally sourced plugs. I am happy with these cables.
Haha no apology needed, yeah that makes sense. I had a somewhat similar experience recently. Everything sounded too bright, and I thought the content was problematic. Then I found my receiver's "Restorer" function was on, which boosts highs a lot and maybe lows a bit to account for low bitrate mp3s or something... Honestly it seems like it would only make a low bitrate recording sound worse, and i dont understand why it's on by default for RCA and network inputs. But that's what i get for resetting the AVR and not double checking every setting on every input combination... it's enough work to just turn Audyssey off.

Good to know on the plugs, I think I'll pull the trigger on 10 or 20 this weekend.
 

Milt

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Don't know if anyone else has this same question I've always had regarding burn-in;
If anything requires x amount of time to burn-in for optimum sound, does this burn-in process magically reach a state of equilibrium where any further burn-in ceases for eternity?

To me, it seems logical that any burn-in process would be an ongoing process that never totally ceases to happen.

I will say one thing, no representative of any speaker brand I've owned advocated for burn-in, in fact just the opposite and exactly
as someone posted earlier from another speaker maker.
 

Blumlein 88

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Don't know if anyone else has this same question I've always had regarding burn-in;
If anything requires x amount of time to burn-in for optimum sound, does this burn-in process magically reach a state of equilibrium where any further burn-in ceases for eternity?

To me, it seems logical that any burn-in process would be an ongoing process that never totally ceases to happen.

I will say one thing, no representative of any speaker brand I've owned advocated for burn-in, in fact just the opposite and exactly
as someone posted earlier from another speaker maker.
Rather hard to give genuine answers to questions about fictional events.

Quite a few pushing burn in say if a unit sits idle for too long it will have to burn in again.
 

MRC01

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Don't know if anyone else has this same question I've always had regarding burn-in;
If anything requires x amount of time to burn-in for optimum sound, does this burn-in process magically reach a state of equilibrium where any further burn-in ceases for eternity?
To me, it seems logical that any burn-in process would be an ongoing process that never totally ceases to happen.
I will say one thing, no representative of any speaker brand I've owned advocated for burn-in, in fact just the opposite and exactly
as someone posted earlier from another speaker maker.
It wouldn't require magic. There are many physical processes that approach equilibrium in a log-shaped curve. Most of the change happens in the first few units of time, where it goes from 0% to 99%, after which the change essentially stops because it takes the next 10 years to go from 99% to 100%.

I know 1 speaker maker that mentions burn-in: Magnepan. They have always claimed that the panel suspension is a bit tight when new. Over the first few hours of use it loosens up a bit and gains a bit more bass extension. This sounds entirely reasonable, given that it's a physical system.

PS: the notion that standard audio cables break in sounds ridiculous to me. I can't think of any physics/mechanics/electronics reason they would.

PPS: I wouldn't be surprised if Magnepan's break-in notes also reflect some amount of listener break-in too. Their speakers have less distortion than most conventional speakers. Harmonic distortion in the bass can make it sound "louder" or "fuller". So clean undistorted bass can sound bass-light at first. This effect is also apparent with high quality headphones. Even though it's more accurate & transparent it takes some time to get used to the sound. So for the first few hours the panel may be loosening up and low end response improving just a tad, while at the same time the listener is learning what clean bass actually sounds like. So Magnepan's listener advice serves a dual purpose.
 
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Crane

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Funny enough I was playing a video today about tube amps from Zeos in the background and he had brought up the burn in issue for cables which he had a gripe about. when I looked I saw that he apparently got the canare version from WBC with the same note :D

 

dkfan9

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It wouldn't require magic. There are many physical processes that approach equilibrium in a log-shaped curve. Most of the change happens in the first few units of time, where it goes from 0% to 99%, after which the change essentially stops because it takes the next 10 years to go from 99% to 100%.[...]

PS: the notion that standard audio cables break in sounds ridiculous to me. I can't think of any physics/mechanics/electronics reason they would.
Yep. Televisions are one major example. Plasmas especially needed a couple hundred hours before they were sufficiently stable for calibration, and OLED panels have a tendency to excessively dark gamma early on, particularly at the low end. These sets do still drift over time after initial settling, but at a significantly slower pace. This is generally less important for LED-LCDs, but all display technologies have finite lifespans dependent on use so drift over time due to use is real.

But like you said, cables dont have characteristics like televisions or other devices which move toward equilibrium over a noticable timespan. Audio cable burn in just doesn't make sense, in addition to lacking evidence.
 

agtp

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Ya ever stopped by any one of a dozen or more subjective sites and posted anything in the way of a counterpoint of the objective nature? You get a swarm of true believers jumping on you like you swatted a hornets nest. Do it more than a couple times and you'll probably be banned as a heretic. ASR is a model of true tolerance in comparison.
I guarantee. ;)
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Remember this conversation, Sal? See what happened when I asked you questions in the Benchmark thread? No questions for Sal. And you approved with a ’like’ when someone stepped in. You asked for an example, so here it is.
 

DonH56

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I miss Thomas, and civility...
 

Hypnotoad

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A warning to anyone buying Furutech cables, counterfeit ones are being sold from China, so don't waste your money buying originals when you can buy one that does the same thing for a lot less. ;)
 

pozz

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Teo [Audio] claims to have liquid conductors. I understand Mercury and Gallium are liquid at room temperature, but not great conductors.
I'll just add that I've spoken to Ken as well, and the price of his cables dropped deeply on Canuck Audio Mart after a member posted criticism regarding his choice of conductor strictly from the point of view of toxicity.

Edit: Links:
https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=51754&p=835355#p835355
https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=51831
 
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scott wurcer

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I'll just add that I've spoken to Ken as well, and the price of his cables dropped deeply on Canuck Audio Mart after a member posted criticism regarding his choice of conductor strictly from the point of view of toxicity.

Galinstan has low toxicity and is the most common room temp liquid metal these days, and yes the conductivity is poor. Gallium, indium, and tin.
 

RayDunzl

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Somehow stumbled into this relaxing low temperature video.

Has a surprise ending...

 
OP
amirm

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Somehow stumbled into this relaxing low temperature video.

Has a surprise ending...

Boy, I sure as heck don't want to eat anything cooked in that kitchen! I will probably turn gold and blue before dying!!!
 

Sal1950

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Don't eat old thermostats and don't chew the paint off your woodwork are good life lessons. :D
 
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