This audio cable business is getting out of hand...

[amirm]

Well color me sold! But seriously, that's the cheapest I can find speaker cables with that type of banana plug, so I will purchase and let people if they... work. All of my other banana plugs I have here eventually lose spring tension as they get old and wobble around in their sockets, I wonder if these will last longer.

I use locking, solid brass banana plugs from Parts Express: https://www.parts-express.com/angle...crews-poly-carbonate-shell-and-insu--091-3608

You turn a ring on the back and it makes them extremely tight. This way they will mate with anything and stay secure.

Expensive though relative to normal banana jacks.

I could measure the effect of cheaper ones relative to bare wire with generic ones using the Benchmark AHB2 amp.

 

[Sal1950]

I use locking, solid brass banana plugs from Parts Express: https://www.parts-express.com/angle...crews-poly-carbonate-shell-and-insu--091-3608

You turn a ring on the back and it makes them extremely tight. This way they will mate with anything and stay secure.

Expensive though relative to normal banana jacks.

I could measure the effect of cheaper ones relative to bare wire with generic ones using the Benchmark AHB2 amp.

Bluejeans also offers a locking bananas for a bit less at $7.25 a pair, or $14.50 for 4 against the PE ones at $17.95
https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

 

[McFly]

For @McFly

A little modelling of the Mogami W3082 on the ATC SCM40s vs. a Mogami and a Belden 12AWG wire and a lower capacitance Belden 14AWG wire. I chose 12AWG based on the 4mm measure you gave, and 14 to compare similar resistance cable to the W3082. Just picked these wires because they looked like pretty standard wires and had easy to access spec sheets. Modeled using VirtuixCad based on this page from Blue Jeans Cable. Used vendor spec sheets for R, L, and C values. And all the graphs are from the perspective of moving to W3082 from these other cables.

View attachment 27724

Tiny FR differences, less than .025(!) dB until the top two octaves, and even there the differences hit .06 dB at max. All the variation up to the top octaves can be explained by the thinner wire having higher resistance and therefore interacting more with the speaker impedance.

So what's causing the differences up top? I modeled the Belden 5100UE against versions of itself modified with specs for the W3082 to find out.

View attachment 27726

So the higher capacitance isn't causing the variations up top--that line is almost flat. It's actually the lower inductance. From what I understand increasing capacitance lowers inductance in cables and vice versa, so it may be in a sense related--someone more knowledgeable than me would have to fill in any answers on that front.

But why is this happening?
View attachment 27727
As far as I can tell, it's due to the speaker's capacitive phase angle in the treble interacting with the relatively lower inductance. As with the relationship between capacitance and inductance in cables, someone who knows more than me would have to fill in here too.

Anyway, this all looks pretty inaudible, but very small differences between some cables feeding that speaker do exist. Oh, and all the measures were normalized to 0 at 1000Hz. The overall level differences will be slightly larger than what can be seen here. The largest difference is between 7 and 12kHz, where the two Mogami cables differ in level by ~.09dB, with the next largest difference at ~.06dB at 100Hz. So if your old cable was indeed 12AWG, then your speakers are now probably ever so slightly quieter.

I owe you and solderdude an apology. During the swap, the RME was powered down and the loudness feature that I was using was reset I.e. turned off. Switched back on and all is well thank you for that amazing reply ! I can tell no difference between the cables using the aforementioned methods. I feel like a douche. The loudness was only 2db in the bass, and having it off made everything sound brighter I.e. more mid and top.

I just found these for a little bit less. I'm surprised how difficult it is to find finished cables with BFA plugs. How do you like the connectors so far? I'm potentially looking at BFAs to terminate at least one end of my cables when I re-wire my system soon.

The plugs are good. A very solid fit. Much more so than my locally sourced plugs. I am happy with these cables.

I use locking, solid brass banana plugs from Parts Express: https://www.parts-express.com/angle...crews-poly-carbonate-shell-and-insu--091-3608

You turn a ring on the back and it makes them extremely tight. This way they will mate with anything and stay secure.

Expensive though relative to normal banana jacks.

I could measure the effect of cheaper ones relative to bare wire with generic ones using the Benchmark AHB2 amp.

Wish you had told me that a week ago. Those look good. Anyway, I am happy with the wbc Mogami speaker cables. Nice and flexible, black, small, good connectors and they pass full audio band

 

[amirm]

Bluejeans also offers a locking bananas for a bit less at $7.25 a pair, or $14.50 for 4 against the PE ones at $17.95
https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

I have seen those but there is not much information on it, such as whether it is solid brass or not. Also, the Parts Express ones can take pretty large cable gauge. I can't tell from small pictures on Bluejeans whether they can do the same.

 

[Sal1950]

I have seen those but there is not much information on it, such as whether it is solid brass or not. Also, the Parts Express ones can take pretty large cable gauge. I can't tell from small pictures on Bluejeans whether they can do the same.

Looking closer I do tend to prefer the PE ones you linked. The angled wire attachment avoids what looks like the extreme depth that builds up with the BJC plugs. Though pricey the PE's are very nice. And they do come with Lifetime Free Tech Support, that could come in very handy. LOL
Let's see $18 x 7 speaker lines = $126 in connectors. Might have to wait till next months SS check.

 

[solderdude]

I owe you and solderdude an apology. During the swap, the RME was powered down and the loudness feature that I was using was reset I.e. turned off. Switched back on and all is well thank you for that amazing reply ! I can tell no difference between the cables using the aforementioned methods. I feel like a douche. The loudness was only 2db in the bass, and having it off made everything sound brighter I.e. more mid and top.

No apology needed. In fact it shows you can trust your ears (in a way) as the perceived difference wasn't placebo but real.
Just not caused by cables or mood but for a totally different reason nobody thought of.

 

[MC_RME]

During the swap, the RME was powered down and the loudness feature that I was using was reset I.e. turned off. Switched back on and all is well

Information like this makes me fire up my ADI-2 DAC to verify we don't have a hidden bug. In my test activated Loudness will stay on when rebooting the device. So did you manually turn Loudness off or did you change the output (the unit has three indivdual settings for the three outputs), or performed a complete reset?

 

[McFly]

Information like this makes me fire up my ADI-2 DAC to verify we don't have a hidden bug. In my test activated Loudness will stay on when rebooting the device. So did you manually turn Loudness off or did you change the output (the unit has three indivdual settings for the three outputs), or performed a complete reset?

Information like this makes me start playing around with my adi2 to figure out how I managed to do it. In the i/O screen where it goes through output screens, i must have manually turned it off because I notice that when pressing the up/down (or B and T) buttons sometimes they will rotate as they are depressed. Its probably my own fault as i was playing around with the unit prior to cable swapping. Its now certainly got me out of my chair double checking settings every time i kick back for a listening session!

P.S. the loudness setting is my favoutite feature of this DAC. My ATCs need the help at low volume, i think because they arent very sensitive.

 

[MC_RME]

With the latest firmware update you get the new Details screen where you can see and verify activated DSP FX easily.

 

[BubbaJay]

The funniest or the saddest depending on how you look at it is when people talk about burning in their DAPs or other electrical gear. I've seen people say how their DAP sounds better after a 100 hours of burn-in.

 

[solderdude]

P.S. the loudness setting is my favourite feature of this DAC. My ATCs need the help at low volume, i think because they aren't very sensitive

Your ears need the help... Phon curves... the speakers behave linear, the hearing does not.

 

[DonH56]

There is a thread or two on a couple of other fora describing the huge improvement in sound as their Ethernet server/streamer burns in.

Equal loudness curves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

 

[Swtoby]

Directionality? How about articulation:

https://mitcables.com/product/acc-268-articulation-control-console/

 

[Dogen]

Directionality? How about articulation:

https://mitcables.com/product/acc-268-articulation-control-console/

Hey, maybe we can chip in and buy one so Amir can tear it apart.

 

[MattHooper]

Directionality? How about articulation:

https://mitcables.com/product/acc-268-articulation-control-console/

Good lord!

Even as an audiophile of many decades I can still be shocked.

Have you guys seen those photos (on the net somewhere) of one of their cable boxes opened up? Not for the squeamish!

 

[Swtoby]

Good lord!

Even as an audiophile of many decades I can still be shocked.

Have you guys seen those photos (on the net somewhere) of one of their cable boxes opened up? Not for the squeamish!

Yes. I used to be an MIT customer. One of those life regrets for me. If only this site existed then and I discovered the Audio Critic sooner...

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Directionality? How about articulation:

https://mitcables.com/product/acc-268-articulation-control-console/

Reminds me of this:

 

[StevenEleven]

Reminds me of this:

Come on, for $88,000 you can’t complain. ; )

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Come on, for $88,000 you can’t complain. ; )

There's always a reason to complain.

 

[MattHooper]

Audiophile confessions:

I admit to still having one of these haunting my basement:

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/revequip/weaver13.htm

Bought it in the late 90's. Tried it, didn't really use it. I pulled it out a while back and put it in. It *does* seem to change the sound, though I don't know why (and I don't seem to like it).