Third World USA

[graz_lag]

There is a very clear and detailed article by Michael Lind on American Affairs Journal : The New Class War

... The Cold War has been followed by the class war. A transatlantic class war has broken out simultaneously in many countries between elites based in the corporate, financial, and professional sectors and working-class populists. Already this transnational class conflict has produced Brexit and the election of Donald Trump to the American presidency. Other shocks are likely in store. ...
... Managerial elites are bound to dominate the economy and society of every modern nation. But if they are not checked, they will overreach and produce a populist backlash in proportion to their excess. By a misguided policy of suppressing wages and thus throttling mass consumption, unchecked managerial elites may inadvertently cripple the technology-driven productivity growth responsible for their rise and accidentally cause the replacement of managerial society itself by a kind of high-tech rentier feudalism. ...

 

[Sal1950]

Iv no clue what you mean by ‘ elite ‘ tbh .

Does the name George Soros ring a bell.
Using his enormous wealth to try and influance the US into a socialist ecomony

 

[svart-hvitt]

The reason those animals in animal farm were "elite" was because they held the power.

There's a (what I consider) disturbing trend lately to divorce the term "elite" from its basis - power - and to connect it to the liberal-left, who happen to be only about as powerful than the conservative right who tend to label them in this way.

I'd point to 1984 more than Animal Farm in describing what is happening here

Animal Farm has the sheeps analogy. And some more. Very humorous lest one feels targeted.

Both 1989 and AF are disturbingly good and complement each other, however.

And remember, Orwell started out as a socialist (communist) and became the capitalists’ best friend.

 

[watchnerd]

I'm trying to figure out the point of this thread.

So far, it seems like a re-tread of all the conversations I used to have as a sophomore in college. And the same conversations had been had by the generations before me.

At least then I had the upside of possibly looking witty to a young lass and scoring some action out of the effort....

 

[watchnerd]

Ye Olde Class War

... The Cold War has been followed by the class war. A transatlantic class war has broken out simultaneously in many countries between elites based in the corporate, financial, and professional sectors and working-class populists. Already this transnational class conflict has produced Brexit and the election of Donald Trump to the American presidency. Other shocks are likely in store. ...
... Managerial elites are bound to dominate the economy and society of every modern nation. But if they are not checked, they will overreach and produce a populist backlash in proportion to their excess. By a misguided policy of suppressing wages and thus throttling mass consumption, unchecked managerial elites may inadvertently cripple the technology-driven productivity growth responsible for their rise and accidentally cause the replacement of managerial society itself by a kind of high-tech rentier feudalism. ...

FIFY

1. Rich vs poor
2. City vs countryside
3. Property owners vs property-less
4. Educated professionals vs laborers
5. Snobby toffs vs the Everyman
6. Financiers vs debt holders
7. Free traders vs protectionists
8. Globalists vs isolationists
9. Innovators vs luddites
10. Economic winners vs economic laggards

It has been thus since at least the end of feudalism, if not longer....

 

[graz_lag]

#11. Subjectivists vs. Objectivists ...

 

[Cosmik]

This is a good (if now old) article on the 'meritocracy':
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/29/comment

The author discusses how a 'meritocracy' convinces its members that they fully deserve their rewards, unlike the aristocrats who went before them and who, at least, knew that it was only pure luck that gave them their riches.

They can be insufferably smug, much more so than the people who knew they had achieved advancement not on their own merit but because they were, as somebody's son or daughter, the beneficiaries of nepotism. The newcomers can actually believe they have morality on their side.

So assured have the elite become that there is almost no block on the rewards they arrogate to themselves. The old restraints of the business world have been lifted and, as the book also predicted, all manner of new ways for people to feather their own nests have been invented and exploited.

I think the highlighted sentence hints at why we find ourselves in this hellishly faux-virtuous world. 'Woke-ness' is a way of signalling one's superior virtue while maintaining the new inequality. If anything, it allows 'the elite' (including Gary Lineker) to look down on the poor (the 'other') while feeling smug and superior. Back of the net!

 

[SIY]

FIFY

1. Rich vs poor
2. City vs countryside
3. Property owners vs property-less
4. Educated professionals vs laborers
5. Snobby toffs vs the Everyman
6. Financiers vs debt holders
7. Free traders vs protectionists
8. Globalists vs isolationists
9. Innovators vs luddites
10. Economic winners vs economic laggards

12. The Lilliput egg crackers vs. the Blefuscu egg crackers.

 

[svart-hvitt]

FIFY

1. Rich vs poor
2. City vs countryside
3. Property owners vs property-less
4. Educated professionals vs laborers
5. Snobby toffs vs the Everyman
6. Financiers vs debt holders
7. Free traders vs protectionists
8. Globalists vs isolationists
9. Innovators vs luddites
10. Economic winners vs economic laggards

It has been thus since at least the end of feudalism, if not longer....

No mention of religion?

 

[Sal1950]

13. Tax payers/employed vs the permanent entitlement class.

 

[Wombat]

Just because one pays tax does not mean it covers the societal benefits(entitlements) received.

 

[watchnerd]

No mention of religion?

Is that class?

 

[svart-hvitt]

Is that class?

No, religion is power. The power to define.

Remember, though, that religion - as when religion undergoes scientific scrutiny - can be defined more broadly than believing in a supernatural god.

 

[watchnerd]

No, religion is power. The power to define.

Remember, though, that religion - as when religion undergoes scientific scrutiny - can be defined more broadly than believing in a supernatural god.

Third World USA, Indonesia, class, religion.....

This thread just seems to lack cohesion and is instead just a big giant "whatever, dude.".

 

[Sal1950]

Just because one pays tax does not mean it covers the societal benefits(entitlements) received.

??? Well the money doesn't fall out the butt of a "bird of paradise".

 

[Rod]

I was comparing the decline in living standards in the USA with the possible end result something similar to what people endure in third world countries. Even if I took a cold view of imperialism and looked at it only as a way to enrich the west and hence myself, those conditions when that did occur no longer apply as the profits are left offshore and taxes avoided, even the profits of the home country are often transferred to offshore havens thus the comparison to Nigeria.
The comparisons of the Philippines and Indonesia that I noticed.
1. I didn't talk politics when I was in the Philippines. I did once ask out of curiosity about the poverty rate to a local politician and was told 80%. Close to Indonesia. Can't verify though but from what I seen it looks about right.
2. When I was there the economy was growing at about 8%. Did not see that growth "trickling down" to rural Philippines.
3. Expensive malls. Prices on imports were high(more than USA). I would look around the malls but usually went to small business owners to buy. For example I bought my wife a pair of Levi's. Cost 80 dollars there when I can buy them here for about 35. Western style grocery stores while not as high as stated in Indonesia, they were still out of the price range of many. As far as I can tell, malls are owned by a few powerful names, like Ayala, Robinson.
4. Shitting all the time. When I was in the cities eating out of grocery stores I was OK, but in rural Philippines meat and vegetables are sold in open air markets without refrigeration. Did not play well with me.
5. Bad Western Entertainment. Never seen top quality western cinema playing there. The music everywhere was generally loud and everyone was playing the same pop. I thought if I heard Komasta one more time......
Since this is a music forum, most people in my area had never even heard a lot of classic rock, jazz, blues, world music that I listen too. Just lots of pop. Many famous bands from the west are unknown.
6. Powerful people are called "wise" and admired by many.
7. While primarily Roman Catholic instead of Islam, religious institutions are strong. When I first arrived I was in a mall and seen a lot of people looking down in a restaurant rotunda on the third floor. I was wandering what was up so I walked up and looked down. Mass was being conducted in a mall. One of my first experiences in difference in culture.
8. Never seen anybody reading a book.
9. Since rooster fighting is legal there, I referred to it as "Cock Fighting" Got some laughter and quit a few snickers back. Learned to call it rooster fighting and not cock fighting. Different meaning there

Military historian Maj. Danny Sjursen. Digs into what happened after the Spanish American war in the Philippines.
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/a...hdiggers-tragic-dawn-of-overseas-imperialism/

What happened in Indonesia:
The Act of Killing-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Act_of_Killing


Good Movie about life in the Philippines:
Metro Manilla-https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1845838/

 

[Sal1950]

Since this is a music forum, most people in my area had never even heard a lot of classic rock, jazz, blues, world music that I listen too. Just lots of pop.

So what is "pop" then, what are they listening to?

 

[Rod]

The top pop hits. Disco dance stuff. One thing thats fun there are called fiestas. Every Barangay has one. Parties all over the Island for months.
Barangay:
A barangay, formerly referred to as barrio, is the smallest administrative division in the Philippines and is the native Filipino term for a village, district or ward

 

[Wombat]

??? Well the money doesn't fall out the butt of a "bird of paradise".

I can't do economic enlightenment for you. Do you know how money is created? It is not by hard work and paying taxes.

 

[JJB70]

With regard to sh*tting and spray painting the bog when overseas, I tend to think a large part of that is also down to the fact that we get very little exposure to certain bugs in the developed world to build up any resistance. That is probably a good thing in the developed world but it can have unfortunate effects when people visit less developed countries. And it isn't limited to eating from street vendors or buying food in local markets.