Thinking of going to HT separates. Should I? Which?

[Promit]

I currently have a 5.1 (SVS Prime) system running off a Denon X3400H. This setup does a pretty decent job for movies, but has always been noticeably deficient for music in a way that I can't seem to quite put my finger on. I figure I will upgrade the speakers eventually, but meanwhile I've been reading a lot of ASR and wondering if it's worth rethinking the upstream electronics. In particular, the massive difference in performance between an Emotiva XMC-1 and the Denon has me thinking seriously about buying the sort of affordable refurb XMC-1 and some reasonable amplification. This is still a dramatic step up in cost, as the Denon is $540 and it looks like 5ch amplification alone will cost more than that on top of the XMC. I'm also considering going to active fronts which would tend to favor the Emotiva to drive things.

Is this something worth spending money on, or am I obsessing with testbed numbers too much on this one? Maybe I should focus on the speakers first?

 

[Cahudson42]

Are you by any chance the sole 'serious music' listener? If so, why not consider leaving the HT as is - and put together a great headphone system. Can be done for $400 - even less.

That was my solution to the same issue.

 

[Promit]

Are you by any chance the sole 'serious music' listener? If so, why not consider leaving the HT as is - and put together a great headphone system. Can be done for $400 - even less.

That was my solution to the same issue.

I don't use the HT system a ton for music - I have a "reference" nearfield music system in my home office with Motu M2 -> DIY DSP sub -> Adam T7V monitors. Balanced throughout, 24/96. I love that system for music. I did not mean to suggest that my HT is perfect for movies, more that music lays its inadequacies bare while it's easier to get away with whatever is lacking for movie/gaming use. I really want to make the big system better at everything and use it more for music too.

 

[NoMoFoNo]

I would consider the main speakers first. That's rubber-meet-road for me. In fact, I decided a few years ago to dispense with the surround speakers entirely. I do everything, including home theater, in stereo, and miss nothing. I prefer large floorstanders and get away with them (WAF) in part because I don't also have a ring of speakers hung on the walls in the room.

Big mains, high quality, stereo. That's the sweet spot IMO, with the upstream electronics following in trail in importance.

I currently have a 5.1 (SVS Prime) system running off a Denon X3400H. This setup does a pretty decent job for movies, but has always been noticeably deficient for music in a way that I can't seem to quite put my finger on. I figure I will upgrade the speakers eventually, but meanwhile I've been reading a lot of ASR and wondering if it's worth rethinking the upstream electronics. In particular, the massive difference in performance between an Emotiva XMC-1 and the Denon has me thinking seriously about buying the sort of affordable refurb XMC-1 and some reasonable amplification. This is still a dramatic step up in cost, as the Denon is $540 and it looks like 5ch amplification alone will cost more than that on top of the XMC. I'm also considering going to active fronts which would tend to favor the Emotiva to drive things.

Is this something worth spending money on, or am I obsessing with testbed numbers too much on this one? Maybe I should focus on the speakers first?

 

[rvsixer]

I had the same issue with my AVR not sounding good with music.

Since that time, ASR has measured my Yamaha AVR, and also the Denon and Emotiva you mention. Based on those results, I would not expect most of the HT prepro's/AVR's to sound any better with music.

So instead, I simply "added" a stereo preamp/switches to the existing HT setup. I can A/B between the stereo and AVR in real time (all using the same music source, speakers and amps for right/left/subs), and the difference is amazing. Sounds great. Lots of threads here how its done.

Have to agree with @NoMoFoNo in my experience. If speakers and proper setup in room are not right, better electronics are not taken advantage of.

 

[Dimifoot]

Get yourself 5 (or preferably 11) high quality speakers, 2 subs and a good prepro, get a professional to set it up and do a proper calibration, and forget all about stereo.

When you get used to multichannel music, even stereo upmixed with Auro3d, you will never go back to 2 speakers.

The Emotiva XMC 1 is cheap right now and does the job well, has Dirac also, but it’s limited to 7.2 and no Auro3d.

You could consider the Monoprice also.

 

[LightninBoy]

I currently have a 5.1 (SVS Prime) system running off a Denon X3400H. This setup does a pretty decent job for movies, but has always been noticeably deficient for music in a way that I can't seem to quite put my finger on. I figure I will upgrade the speakers eventually, but meanwhile I've been reading a lot of ASR and wondering if it's worth rethinking the upstream electronics. In particular, the massive difference in performance between an Emotiva XMC-1 and the Denon has me thinking seriously about buying the sort of affordable refurb XMC-1 and some reasonable amplification. This is still a dramatic step up in cost, as the Denon is $540 and it looks like 5ch amplification alone will cost more than that on top of the XMC. I'm also considering going to active fronts which would tend to favor the Emotiva to drive things.

Is this something worth spending money on, or am I obsessing with testbed numbers too much on this one? Maybe I should focus on the speakers first?

Absolutely focus on speakers first. If you plan to listen to multi-channel music, upgrade both the mains and the center. The surrounds are less important.

As for pre/pros, if you don't care about Dolby Atmos or 4K HDMI switching, you can find some good deals on the last generation pre/pros that still have some type of room EQ. I think a refurbed XMC-1 would be a good choice. That said, I've soured a bit on separates given the measurements here on ASR. However, I still like the idea of buying quality amps (a solved problem) that I can hang onto for decades while upgrading pre/pros as technology and formats change.

 

[rvsixer]

I guess the XMC-1 might be a good choice for music if one isn't too picky (in comparison to better objectively performing solutions for less money anyways):
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...urements-of-emotiva-xmc-1-gen-2-pre-pro.9225/

 

[LightninBoy]

I guess the XMC-1 might be a good choice for music if one isn't too picky (in comparison to better objectively performing solutions for less money anyways):
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...urements-of-emotiva-xmc-1-gen-2-pre-pro.9225/

Can you give a couple examples of pre/pros that deliver better performance for less money?

 

[rvsixer]

Can you give a couple examples of pre/pros that deliver better performance for less money?

No, as noted in post #5 in this thread.

 

[LightninBoy]

No, as noted in post #5 in this thread.

Got it, thanks. Now I see you meant adding a stereo solution. And I agree, there are lots of less expensive stereo solutions with better SINADs than the XMC-1. However, the XMC-1 has room eq and multi sub management, which in my opinion trumps SINAD improvements (given that the XMC-1 is +90 SINAD). I believe if you want room eq and bass management in a stereo solution you'd again spend more than the XMC-1. But I'm happy to be proven wrong on that point, cause that's what's holding me back from adding a separate stereo path in my own HT.

 

[rvsixer]

I believe if you want room eq and bass management in a stereo solution you'd again spend more than the XMC-1. But I'm happy to be proven wrong on that point, cause that's what's holding me back from adding a separate stereo path in my own HT.

Agree on multisubs, but for me all the flavors of "room correction" I have used always sounded and measured worse than good old proper room and speaker setup/REW/measuring/manual EQ only where its needed.

I currently run XSP-1 (purchased used) analog stereo preamp supporting bass managed multisubs. Currently in design process of all digital implementation of same (only due to chasing mains/sub time alignment, which I cannot easily/cheaply do with the current analog implementation).

Both solutions below the price of a used XMC-1. Unless I really splurge and just go all in on MiniDSP SHD, in which case I can finally try DIRAC to see if it's actually beneficial .

 

[rvsixer]

Added post I made elsewhere, should hopefully help clarify adding separate stereo system to existing HT system:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dsp-shd-dac-dsp-and-streamer.4286/post-365964

 

[Promit]

I appreciate the input rxvixer, but I have to say I'm not philosophically on board with the plan. I want to be able to run my singular system for everything including multichannel music. For now though, I'm trying to decide whether that "everything" includes Atmos at some point which would really strongly push me back towards an AVR. I also decided that speakers were indeed the right focal point and I'm going to start there.

 

[rvsixer]

Yes if music quality from an AVR/prepro is acceptable to you, by all means keep it down to one box.