Thinking About Subwoofer Options for 5.2

[kyuu]

So far I've got everything set for the 5.1 setup for my living room in the new home I will be moving into at the end of the year.

However, I'm considering whether or not to dip my toes into the water of changing that point 1 into a point 2. What I currently possess is an old Hsu STF-2. So my first question would be if it makes any sense at all to simply add a second subwoofer? I would plan on doing integration using a miniDSP 2x4 HD, required regardless since my AVR only has a single sub out. Possibly using MSO? Given that, is it sensible to try to integrate a second subwoofer of different make and/or model or should I start fresh with two identical subwoofers if I'm going to do this at all?

Regardless of what option I choose here, my placement options are going to be limited. More than likely one will be on the front wall next to the entertainment center and the other will have to be hiding near the seating area -- either under an end table or using a slim model to hide under the couch possibly. Given the restrictions, and also keeping in mind that I'm trying not to break the bank, the options I've been looking at are:

KEF Kube 10
KEF T2
Monoprice SSW-12

Not sure what else to look at for small/slim subs. The KEFs are really at the very top end of what I'd want to spend on a single sub (and I'd likely try to find a deal on those).

I've also been considering doing in-walls, perhaps. Obviously that has placement restrictions, but then again since my placement options will already be severely limited it's possible the in-walls might actually be a little more free since the second wouldn't have to be hidden beneath furniture? One could even go in the ceiling, maybe? I've been looking at the KEF Ci200SQb-THX paired with their KASA 500 amp. That's a bit of a pricey option, mostly due to the amp, but I've seen it for considerably cheaper refurbished so I could probably float it. There's zero good info about how these actually perform, though, so I dunno.

Anyone have any thoughts/opinions?

 

[kyuu]

I congratulate you and wish you many great audio experiences in your new home.

Thank you.

This is perhaps not the optimal solition (unless you are going to use it strictly for LFE effects channel)

It would certainly be for both LFE and to cover all content below the crossover, most likely at 80Hz.

Furthermore, even if you cross your subs very low (let say 80Hz), you are still dealing with a harmonic of 160Hz.

You'll have to explain this one to me. Why would harmonics above 80Hz be getting played by the subwoofer if it's being low-passed?

However, exactly for that reason, having two sunwoofer makes sense for music, but only if place them in stereo configuration and use identical subs.

Placing both subs on the front wall would seem to defeat the primary purpose of countering the room modes, would it not?

If you are not that concerned (or more into movies) just get one decent sub and set it’s crossover low.

This system will be for both music and movies.

 

[markstein]

Hello my Friend.


I congratulate you and wish you many great audio experiences in your new home.


This is perhaps not the optimal solition (unless you are going to use it strictly for LFE effects channel) and here is the explanation:

Furthermore, even if you cross your subs very low (let say 80Hz), you are still dealing with a harmonic of 160Hz. However, exactly for that reason, having two sunwoofer makes sense for music, but only if place them in stereo configuration and use identical subs.


If I would be not that concerned (or more into movies) I would just get one decent sub and set it’s crossover low.

Cheers

If done properly, such a config works fine. I have one sub at the left front wall corner, the second sub behind my listening place, on the back wall. Time aligned accordingly (back sub delayed). Then both subs optimized using MultiSubwoofer Optimizer software. Xover set @80Hz (LR 4th order).

Bass distribution on my listening sofa is much better, the back sub fills a deep null @ 60Hz, and there is a - positive - sense of spaciousness I do not have without subs.

 

[FrantzM]

Hello my Friend.


I congratulate you and wish you many great audio experiences in your new home.


This is perhaps not the optimal solition (unless you are going to use it strictly for LFE effects channel) and here is the explanation:

Furthermore, even if you cross your subs very low (let say 80Hz), you are still dealing with a harmonic of 160Hz. However, exactly for that reason, having two sunwoofer makes sense for music, but only if place them in stereo configuration and use identical subs.


If I would be not that concerned (or more into movies) I would just get one decent sub and set it’s crossover low.

Cheers

I don't know how to put this in nicer terms...
The referenced video is from a B.S. artist.
And you are also wrong.

==========


Now to answer the O.P. @kyuu
You are correct in many of your assumptions. Yes You can use different subwoofers in the same system, the rultes of thumb is not to mix sealed with ported .., else within reason , subwoofers do not have to be identical.
Subwoofer choices depends on the size of the room. If you want to fill the room, you require a subwoofer capable of adequate output in the lower resister. This is not subjective. @sweetchaos , put together a supremely useful SUBWOOFER COMPARISON LIST (Click here) that can help you decide on the subwoofer you need. (There is a column labelled " My Calculated Bassaholic Rank", that rank the subwoofer by room size, Large, Medium, Small) To repeat, large room needs, usually, large subwoofers. You may get away with using several smaller subs for good results. REW and MSO will help you integrate these subwoofers. Do keep in mind that this will not be an easy-peasy, walk-in-the-park, kind of endeavor. It will be involved, challenging, frustrating, ultimately satisfying journey. But, yes, you can use several small subwoofers to have good bass response...


The miniDSP 2x4 HD is a versatile DSP. Coupled with REW and MSO), It will allow the integration of multiple subwoofers to most audio systems. Your results can be smooth , extended bass in different listening postions. It will take time to arrive to such great results but it is worth the bother.

My suggestions:
mniDSP 2x4 HD
miniDSP UMik-1
REW
MSO
Keep the STF-2
2 x MonoPrice SSW-12


Then you learn, you watch videos., you come back here at ASR and ask questions, You learn how to measure. You measure. You learn how to use REW, then you apply and measure the results... then you learn MSO, and apply its corrections. None of these are easy. You may get frustrated .. The results, both objective and subjective, are likely to please you.

Good Luck.

Peace.


Peace.

 

[kyuu]

So, I have the opportunity to purchase two used Kef Kube 10b subwoofers at $270 each. Seems like I should probably jump on this? Or would integrating the Monoprice SSW-12 with my existing HSU sub be an equivalent/better option? Someone help push me over the edge (or back from the brink)!

 

[Oddball]

Well it really depends on what sub range and SPL are you shooting for and how will that work with the placement in your room.

The deal with KEF seems like a good one, but it will be limited in SPL and FQ range. As long as your are fine with that no issues. If sub size is concern, there are smaller subs with dual drivers that would go lower and louder, like SVS 3000 micro, but they usually go for much more that $270.

 

[kyuu]

Well it really depends on what sub range and SPL are you shooting for and how will that work with the placement in your room.

All my other speakers besides the subwoofer will be in the walls, so you can guess how limited I am on placement and size. One sub will definitely be somewhere on the front wall next to the entertainment center. The second, if I have one, will need to be hidden under the couch, end table, or some other piece of furniture in the seating area. Hence my interest in a slim option like the Monoprice SSW-12. I'm thinking I could probably stick the Kube 10b under a table without much issue though.

I want as much extension and SPL as I can within my constraints. The Kube seems like an excellent compromise there. Obviously its extension comes from DSP, as I don't see anything of equivalent size or less that does better, except...

The deal with KEF seems like a good one, but it will be limited in SPL and FQ range. As long as your are fine with that no issues. If sub size is concern, there are smaller subs with dual drivers that would go lower and louder, like SVS 3000 micro, but they usually go for much more that $270.

Yeah one of those dual-driver models would be nice but they're pretty spendy. I'm trying to keep the whole thing under a grand, including the miniDSP for integration.

 

[Oddball]

All my other speakers besides the subwoofer will be in the walls, so you can guess how limited I am on placement and size. One sub will definitely be somewhere on the front wall next to the entertainment center. The second, if I have one, will need to be hidden under the couch, end table, or some other piece of furniture in the seating area. Hence my interest in a slim option like the Monoprice SSW-12. I'm thinking I could probably stick the Kube 10b under a table without much issue though.

I want as much extension and SPL as I can within my constraints. The Kube seems like an excellent compromise there. Obviously its extension comes from DSP, as I don't see anything of equivalent size or less that does better, except...

Yeah one of those dual-driver models would be nice but they're pretty spendy. I'm trying to keep the whole thing under a grand, including the miniDSP for integration.

It’s really up to you. Occasionally SVS 3000 comes around second hand on a good deal that could fit your budget but will be more than Cube. You should also make sure to EQ smaller subs appropriately as they won’t be able to do 100+dB at 20hz as some soundtracks would want them to.

Hope you will enjoy your subs whichever way you go.

EDIT: Just to add that dual opposed driver configuration will be largely vibration free so if you put it under the side table, it won’t be rocking your glass as single driver configuration might.

 

[VMAT4]

Why not wait until you're moved in to decide? Nothing like hearing what your new listening space sounds like first. Congrats on your new house!

 

[kyuu]

Why not wait until you're moved in to decide? Nothing like hearing what your new listening space sounds like first.

That's not a bad idea for another reason that just occurred to me: once we're in the new space and everything except the sub is in the wall, perhaps my better half will be amenable to the idea of getting spendy to get the subwoofers into the walls too. The SVS in-wall sub system looks pretty nice...

Congrats on your new house!

Thanks!