Thinking about retirement?

[Robbo99999]

That would be illegal for an employee (German law limits are maximum 10 hours work time per day and minimum 11 hours break in between, but with a limit of 48 hours per week; and minimum 20 days vacation per year with minimum 10 days in a row, to keep people healthy), not though if you run your own business.

Wow, only 48hr per week max legal in Germany? That's less than 10hrs per day over 5 days. So an employee can under no circumstances work longer than that? I understand what you said re if you own your own business then that is not so for yourself (but would be for it's employees). I suppose it's quite good in a way as sometimes in some countries there's a sort of kudos or expectation of long hours, but I think then productivity is not efficient in quite a few cases, but the flipside is when business in time of need then sometimes it would help for employees to pull long hours in the short term, and perhaps some employees would even want or need the overtime, I imagine it's tricky if people are limited to 48hrs per week?

 

[Mart68]

Wow, only 48hr per week max legal in Germany? That's less than 10hrs per day over 5 days. So an employee can under no circumstances work longer than that? I understand what you said re if you own your own business then that is not so for yourself (but would be for it's employees). I suppose it's quite good in a way as sometimes in some countries there's a sort of kudos or expectation of long hours, but I think then productivity is not efficient in quite a few cases, but the flipside is when business in time of need then sometimes it would help for employees to pull long hours in the short term, and perhaps some employees would even want or need the overtime, I imagine it's tricky if people are limited to 48hrs per week?

There's an EU working hours directive that limits mandatory hours to 48/week, but employees can opt out and voluntary overtime is permitted in any case.

 

[rdenney]

When I was in my twenties I took a job where I could work as many hours as I wanted, as long as the building was open. So 0700 to 2200 weekdays and 0800 - 1800 on Saturdays. I only did that for about 4 months though, they stopped it once the backlog we were dealing with was cleared.

You can do it easy when you're young. Plus you have no time to spend the money you're earning.

I used the money I accumulated for deposit on a house.

I certainly spent many of my 45 adult working years (and counting) doing the noon-to-midnight “shift”. Longer hours if proposals were due. But Im blessed to derive much satisfaction from my work, on balance.

There are aspects to any activity that are tedious and dull, even those that are ultimately extremely satisfying. Even world class musicians play their scales and determine to enjoy them.

But many in this world support their families diligently doing work that doesn’t provide much ultimate satisfaction, and their employers will accept everything we give and then some, often without much appreciation or loyalty. God love those folks! They deserve their retirement and I hope it brings them joy. But there will still be tedious and dull activities even in that joyful retirement.

Rick “no longer willing to put in 70 hours a week doing unimportant stuff” Denney

 

[mlsstl]

When I was in my twenties I took a job where I could work as many hours as I wanted, as long as the building was open. So 0700 to 2200 weekdays and 0800 - 1800 on Saturdays. I only did that for about 4 months though, they stopped it once the backlog we were dealing with was cleared.

You can do it easy when you're young. Plus you have no time to spend the money you're earning.

One "problem" for people willing to work intensely like this for a decade or two in order to accumulate funds is that they are often psychologically unable to slow down afterwards; they have a very hard time relaxing. Sometimes they end up going back to work in the same field or find work in another area, or they may become engrossed in a hobby, volunteer positions, work around the house or travel, etc. However, the way they are mentally wired means they have to be doing something.

Years ago I was talking with a friend about retirement and he threw out this question: "Why would you give up the one thing that you know more about than anything else in the world?" For me that has worked out well. I'm two days a week at a company I've been with for over 30 years and I get to see the weird stuff I find fascinating, but no longer have to do the "hard" part of the job -- I examine the issue, give them my two cents, and what they do with it from there is their problem, not mine. And they pay me well! The other five days of the week I have some engaging hobbies, a solid social life, spend time with the grandkids and travel just a bit.

In short, I'm wired to stay busy, but am grateful that I've found a very satisfying way to do so.

 

[LTig]

There's an EU working hours directive that limits mandatory hours to 48/week, but employees can opt out and voluntary overtime is permitted in any case.

This is correct but (in Germany) still limited to max 10h/day. And within a certain time frame (6 weeks? 3 Months?) the average worktime must be back to 48 hours per week. So you can work more than the standard 35 to 40 h/week but then you have to work less afterwards, to give body and mind some rest. Of course there are always some exceptions for special cases ...

 

[respice finem]

That would be illegal for an employee (German law limits are maximum 10 hours work time per day and minimum 11 hours break in between, but with a limit of 48 hours per week; and minimum 20 days vacation per year with minimum 10 days in a row, to keep people healthy), not though if you run your own business.

For an employee, yes, it would be illegal, but if you are a) in a so called free profession, as is the case with doctors, b) have twice as many patients than you theoretically should and c) you are your own employer, then your body and mind only sets the upper limit. There is a (theoretical) limit to hours in the office, as well as emergency service (Bereitschaftsdienst). But none for doing "tons" of bureaucracy at home, none for additional hospital work every second weekend, etc.

Practically, in an outpatient office situation, nobody will say a word against a doctor working more than he should anyway, at least in the "doctors scarcity" regions.

 

[respice finem]

Gees, 16yrs without vacation whilst doing 60-70hr weeks, that's crazy, at least you got through it! (I'm assuming when you say without vacation meaning you had no time off apart from weekends.)

Every second weekend I gave myself some time off, to avoid falling into "karoshi style" overworking. Mostly used for sport.
The most tiring thing outside office hours was the vast bureaucracy, filling every weekday evening.

 

[Mart68]

For me that has worked out well. I'm two days a week at a company I've been with for over 30 years and I get to see the weird stuff I find fascinating, but no longer have to do the "hard" part of the job -- I examine the issue, give them my two cents, and what they do with it from there is their problem, not mine. And they pay me well! The other five days of the week I have some engaging hobbies, a solid social life, spend time with the grandkids and travel just a bit.

In short, I'm wired to stay busy, but am grateful that I've found a very satisfying way to do so.

I'd do that if I could, but that option's not really open to me in my area of expertise, it's full time or nothing. So I chose nothing - It did take me a few months of nothing to start to relax into it. I did find it hard to 'switch off' and come to terms with the idea that I was done working.

 

[mlsstl]

...it's full time or nothing. So I chose nothing - It did take me a few months of nothing to start to relax into it. I did find it hard to 'switch off' and come to terms with the idea that I was done working.

I know there are many jobs like that. If you can't or don't want to be there full time they have no use for you. Other jobs involve physical labor that becomes difficult or impossible as one ages. So I know I'm very blessed with how its worked out for me.

Of course, I also know a number of people in retirement who approach their "hobbies" with an intensity, effort and frequency that would shame 90% of full time workers....

 

[Frank Dernie]

I retired at 60 from a job I had enjoyed all my career but which kept me away from home and family for a long time.
I am 75 now.

I live within walking distance of 3 of our children and 6 grandchildren and have enjoyed the young ones having missed out a lot on my own children growing up.
My wife hates cooking so I have been shopping for food and cooking since I retired, meaning I eat what I feel like every day.

I make dinner for family 2 days per week, so there are 7 of us one evening and 8 another.
I walk the dog on the ridgeway daily taking my binoculars to do a bit of birding.

I can listen to music at home more too.

After being in an aeroplane more or less every week for over 30 years I plan to never go near an airport again, which means holidays in the UK or a cruise from a UK port, which is fine.

I loved my work but my 15 years of retirement has been great so far. Hopefully my health will hold up since it is the most important thing.

 

[Robbo99999]

Every second weekend I gave myself some time off, to avoid falling into "karoshi style" overworking. Mostly used for sport.
The most tiring thing outside office hours was the vast bureaucracy, filling every weekday evening.

You mean you normally worked a bit on weekends? So on that second weekend which days did you give yourself off?

 

[respice finem]

If possible, both days off, but mostly Sunday every second week. The work weekends, not at my office, but either as emergency (call) service, or in a nearby hospital. Some colleagues in the region followed a different tactic, like periodically flying to UK (before Brexit) for 1-2 weeks at a time, which was lucrative, but a no-go for me, I get bad migraine from flying. Looking back, it was hard work, really, but it enabled me to retire early, so no regrets.

 

[Robbo99999]

I retired at 60 from a job I had enjoyed all my career but which kept me away from home and family for a long time.
I am 75 now.

I live within walking distance of 3 of our children and 6 grandchildren and have enjoyed the young ones having missed out a lot on my own children growing up.
My wife hates cooking so I have been shopping for food and cooking since I retired, meaning I eat what I feel like every day.

I make dinner for family 2 days per week, so there are 7 of us one evening and 8 another.
I walk the dog on the ridgeway daily taking my binoculars to do a bit of birding.

I can listen to music at home more too.

After being in an aeroplane more or less every week for over 30 years I plan to never go near an airport again, which means holidays in the UK or a cruise from a UK port, which is fine.

I loved my work but my 15 years of retirement has been great so far. Hopefully my health will hold up since it is the most important thing.

I think it's great that you're the actual Frank Dernie who was in F1 in Williams, etc, etc! I can't think of a more famous person we've come across in ASR community. Understandable re your points on travel!

 

[Sal1950]

I think it's great that you're the actual Frank Dernie who was in F1 in Williams, etc, etc! I can't think of a more famous person we've come across in ASR community.

Oh please, his head is big enough already.

 

[Soandso]

Food costs are a factor if retired on a fixed budget.

 

[Holmz]

Spam is a high cost food?

 

[Ken1951]

Just came back from London and Paris.

You think you are being a respectful visitor because he are learning the local language? You think the French is appreciative of it?

There are stereotypes on French people, those stereotype didn't magically come about.

The next time Europeans decide to call Americans arrogant, rude or whatever, I'm just going to roll my eyes.

We just returned from our trip to France yesterday. I could not disagree more vehemently with this post. From Paris to Reims to Chalons-en-Champagne to Lyon to Avignon and then back to CDG for our flight home we were universally met with kindness, politeness, and understanding of our attempts with French. We were in musées, cathedrals, restaurants, Champagne houses, taxis, trains, busses, small shops, you name it. Everyone - and I DO MEAN EVERYONE - could not have been kinder and more pleasant in every way possible. I am tall and use a cane as a third balance point and the considerations of French institutions including all museums, immigration and customs, were fantastic. It was not until we arrived back into IAD that I ran into rudeness and general disdain. One older (and I can say this as I'm 74) woman almost knocked me down pushing past me to get her pack from the security tray behind mine - as she was obviously sooooo important. Glad to be back home to our house, but France was wonderful and we hope to be able to return. To France and the French I have but to say: Merci pour tous!

 

[Frank Dernie]

Just came back from London and Paris.

You think you are being a respectful visitor because he are learning the local language? You think the French is appreciative of it?

There are stereotypes on French people, those stereotype didn't magically come about.

The next time Europeans decide to call Americans arrogant, rude or whatever, I'm just going to roll my eyes.

I have heard your stereotype story about Parisians but I worked and lived in France for 4 years and would happily live there again. The French are IME cultured and well educated.

I have visited the USA many times since my first visit in 1970, for holidays, visiting relatives and as a consultant helping racing teams in indy car and sports car racing.
I have found US people to be generally polite, gracious and generous but generally not that widely educated.

 

[Salt]

We just returned from our trip to France yesterday. I could not disagree more vehemently with this post. From Paris to Reims to Chalons-en-Champagne to Lyon to Avignon and then back to CDG for our flight home we were universally met with kindness, politeness, and understanding of our attempts with French. We were in musées, cathedrals, restaurants, Champagne houses, taxis, trains, busses, small shops, you name it. Everyone - and I DO MEAN EVERYONE - could not have been kinder and more pleasant in every way possible. I am tall and use a cane as a third balance point and the considerations of French institutions including all museums, immigration and customs, were fantastic. It was not until we arrived back into IAD that I ran into rudeness and general disdain. One older (and I can say this as I'm 74) woman almost knocked me down pushing past me to get her pack from the security tray behind mine - as she was obviously sooooo important. Glad to be back home to our house, but France was wonderful and we hope to be able to return. To France and the French I have but to say: Merci pour tous!

We spend two or three weeks almost every year in France for holidays and different destinations , and this for the past 30 years.
Fully agree to your impressions.
If I would have to emigrate, France would be my first choice.

 

[Ken1951]

generally not that widely educated

Having spent 20 years in public education - albeit working with students with high potential - this is absolutely on point.