"Things that cannot be measured"

[Jimbob54]

So, you've got measurements that show your system emphasizes high frequencies? If so and if it's your amp or DAC, I'd get them repaired. Or get speakers more suited to your amp and listening habits

Your claims elsewhere about MQA are presumptuous, unless you can be sure you're comparing masterings whose only difference is MQA. Thats Audio Science 101.

They've left the building.

 

[TLEDDY]

Wow, you certainly do NOT know anything about subjective testing. None the less, you make professional accusations. I suspect you don't belong in a scientific forum.

Let me assist concerning positive and negative controls. I am a retired Clinical Laboratory Scientist and will use a microbiological example to illustrate.

I want to determine whether a patient has gonorrhea. I prepare a sample on a glass slide from the patient and two other slides, one known to have the bacteria present (the positive control) and one without the bacteria present (the negative control). I then stain the three slides to color the gonorrhea organism red, then look at the slides under a microscope. So:

1. The Negative slide will not show any of the red staining bacteria.
2. The Positive slide will demonstrate red stained bacteria.
3. The Patient side will show either the presence or absence of the bacteria, providing the diagnosis.

If the Positive slide DOES NOT show the red staining bacteria, then the process has failed and no diagnosis can e determined.

I hope my example demonstrates to Oddio how important controls are in the work of science!

 

[Jimbob54]

I hope my example demonstrates to Oddio how important controls are in the work of science!

Sadly not. They left the building. But the next guy might benefit.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Sadly not. They left the building. But the next guy might benefit.

Jimbob. having the OP leave the building never stops anyone on ASR from continuing to post. Usually we can get another 20 pages of posts talking to the OP even though he is long gone. I think it is funny and I enjoy the posts. I'm weird that way!

 

[Purité Audio]

And no answering back.
Keith

 

[Sal1950]

Jimbob. having the OP leave the building never stops anyone on ASR from continuing to post. Usually we can get another 20 pages of posts talking to the OP even though he is long gone. I think it is funny and I enjoy the posts. I'm weird that way!

Nothing like a lively debate, just no name calling.

 

[Jimbob54]

Can it be measured ?

If yes.... take the never ending 'discussion' elsewhere to a new thread.

I think this will be my evenings job. It's very rare stuff gets moved OUT of here.

 

[Jimbob54]

I have created a new thread for 11 pages of "stuff" https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ensation-testing-method-for-amplifiers.56701/

 

[Sal1950]

Damn JimBob, that was a big job but well worth the end results on both threads.
Thanks.

 

[Jimbob54]

Damn JimBob, that was a big job but well worth the end results on both threads.
Thanks.

Good job @amirm pays double time for Sunday drudge work.

I'm no mathlete but 2x0 is a lotta $$$ yes?

 

[Sal1950]

Good job @amirm pays double time for Sunday drudge work.

I'm no mathlete but 2x0 is a lotta $$$ yes?

Your forgetting the holiday pay bonus.
Maybe now you can buy those new Nodust speaker cables you been eyeballing. LOL

 

[Timcognito]

Your forgetting the holiday pay bonus.

It's not labor day in England, Sal.

 

[Newman]

Good job @amirm pays double time for Sunday drudge work.

I'm no mathlete but 2x0 is a lotta $$$ yes?

He should pay you 100x

 

[TLEDDY]

Let me assist concerning positive and negative controls. I am a retired Clinical Laboratory Scientist and will use a microbiological example to illustrate.

I want to determine whether a patient has gonorrhea. I prepare a sample on a glass slide from the patient and two other slides, one known to have the bacteria present (the positive control) and one without the bacteria present (the negative control). I then stain the three slides to color the gonorrhea organism red, then look at the slides under a microscope. So:

1. The Negative slide will not show any of the red staining bacteria.
2. The Positive slide will demonstrate red stained bacteria.
3. The Patient side will show either the presence or absence of the bacteria, providing the diagnosis.

If the Positive slide DOES NOT show the red staining bacteria, then the process has failed and no diagnosis can e determined.

I hope my example demonstrates to Oddio how important controls are in the work of science!

Damn…I hope my diagnosis was not the cause of his departure!

Perhaps I should add that, in my over 50 year career in the laboratory, I did help diagnose that disease in throat swabs - perhaps that was worrying.

 

[Svend P]

He should pay you 100x

 

[KMSA]

There are still one (stereo)mic recordings being made.... in one take. They can sound great indeed.

For instance (when you like this type of music)

Stones in My Passway...Discovering the music of Robert Johnson part 2. A Sound Liaison 'One Mic +' Audiophile Recording., by Carmen Gomes

15 track album

carmengomes.bandcamp.com

RAY!... A Sound Liaison 'One Mic +' Audiophile Recording., by Carmen Gomes

13 track album

carmengomes.bandcamp.com

"Don't You Cry". A Sound Liaison One Mic Audiophile Recording., by Carmen Gomes

11 track album

carmengomes.bandcamp.com

There is a player on this page that lets you hear all their albums completely.

The latest from the label is an instant favorite of mine;

 

[Newman]

Whatever happened to the good old days when they used a single stereo mike, or at most 4 tracks? Those were great recordings.

There are still one (stereo)mic recordings being made.... in one take. They can sound great indeed.

Almost certainly cognitive bias is the reason you perceive 'great sound' from such recordings.

Recording engineers have done listener blind comparisons of single- vs multiple-microphone recordings (by producing two well-made versions from the same performance), and listeners strongly prefer the multi-microphone productions.

'Simple is best' is a very common and understandable bias, but it should be tested and, in this case, it fails.

cheers

 

[Blumlein 88]

Almost certainly cognitive bias is the reason you perceive 'great sound' from such recordings.

Recording engineers have done listener blind comparisons of single- vs multiple-microphone recordings (by producing two well-made versions from the same performance), and listeners strongly prefer the multi-microphone productions.

'Simple is best' is a very common and understandable bias, but it should be tested and, in this case, it fails.

cheers

I don't know about all of that. I've done a little recording. Two microphone vs multi mike really is one of those things where you don't need to blind anyone as there is enough difference. I have done that test with people blinded however with level matching (which is a sticky wicket all on its own), and letting people decide which they like. Yes, always preferred the multi-mike version. I don't, but then even blind you always know which is which you are listening to. Now I've never tried to get two versions to sound the same and compare, but then again why would you?

The other test I've done is uncompressed with a little compression. A little compression with a little more compression. A little more compression with even a little more compression and then even a little more vs even more compression. Done this with both two mic and multi mike recordings. Compression was preferred every step of the way by everyone I had listening. The final step was the highest level of compression vs none. Everyone wrinkled their noses at how bad one of them sounded and preferred no compression. My highest level of compression was lower than is your typical squashed commercial recording. No limiting for instance. So what do you make of those results?

 

[SIY]

So what do you make of those results?

The old frog in boiling water trope reified.

 

[j_j]

I don't know about all of that. I've done a little recording. Two microphone vs multi mike really is one of those things where you don't need to blind anyone as there is enough difference. I have done that test with people blinded however with level matching (which is a sticky wicket all on its own), and letting people decide which they like. Yes, always preferred the multi-mike version. I don't, but then even blind you always know which is which you are listening to. Now I've never tried to get two versions to sound the same and compare, but then again why would you?

The other test I've done is uncompressed with a little compression. A little compression with a little more compression. A little more compression with even a little more compression and then even a little more vs even more compression. Done this with both two mic and multi mike recordings. Compression was preferred every step of the way by everyone I had listening. The final step was the highest level of compression vs none. Everyone wrinkled their noses at how bad one of them sounded and preferred no compression. My highest level of compression was lower than is your typical squashed commercial recording. No limiting for instance. So what do you make of those results?

I have done EXACTLY that same demonstration time and time again.

Yet it's ignored, and we hear "LOUD IS GOOD LOUD IS GOOD". (as an aesthetic choice, it's fine, but for everything, no) I have been pointing out since the early 1990's exactly just how a little bit louder is "always better" but 10 steps is almost always universally hated, even though each individual step is better.

And the beat goes on.