"Things that cannot be measured"

[pablolie]

No one that sees a painting or photograph or movie or even holography or VR goggles will ever think they are there. Not sure why this belongs under "measurements".

And to be honest, the last thing I want to do at home is recreate the live music experience. Sure there's some excitement about the social occasion, but as a rule the sound quality is much worse, and the people are loud, etc etc. Spare me that stuff at home. There are preciously few "live albums" I'd listen to rather than the studio version. As a rule, the recorded studio album is far more balanced in every respect.

 

[Bob from Florida]

No one that sees a painting or photograph or movie or even holography or VR goggles will ever think they are there. Not sure why this belongs under "measurements".

And to be honest, the last thing I want to do at home is recreate the live music experience. Sure there's some excitement about the social occasion, but as a rule the sound quality is much worse, and the people are loud, etc etc. Spare me that stuff at home. There are preciously few "live albums" I'd listen to rather than the studio version. As a rule, the recorded studio album is far more balanced in every respect.

Not necessarily "live" albums. Live un-amplified music in an acoustically good venue. Virtually impossible to reproduce at home, but worth the time spent going out. Uncompressed dynamic music at its best.
I do like certain "live" albums - Jazz at the Pawnshop or Allman Brothers Fillmore East version of Memory of Elizabeth Reed is my favorite.
Since the mastering process always changes things - first and foremost compression - it is more a question of liking versus accuracy.

 

[pablolie]

Not necessarily "live" albums. Live un-amplified music in an acoustically good venue. Virtually impossible to reproduce at home, but worth the time spent going out. Uncompressed dynamic music at its best.
I do like certain "live" albums - Jazz at the Pawnshop or Allman Brothers Fillmore East version of Memory of Elizabeth Reed is my favorite.
Since the mastering process always changes things - first and foremost compression - it is more a question of liking versus accuracy.

There still are albums that are recorded in a great studio or venue, without individual tracks for the different instruments being mixed together. But I prefer a live crowd is left our of it. Rare exceptions like Bill Evans' legendary Waltz for Debbie or George Benson's Weekend in LA excepted. As a rule I much prefer well recorded studio versions. And indeed prefer a well recorded studio performance to an artifical mix of different instruments.

 

[egellings]

Thanks for replying.

My understanding is that objectively "flat" in-room response is generally perceived as "bright", rather than "neutral".



I agree with this.

If the source material has bright sounding content, that that will come through with fidelity in a flat, neutral room/sound system.

 

[egellings]

I agree.



Do you think it's possible that a tone control could make a correction towards greater neutrality, such as in a situation where the speaker/room/listening position combination results in reduced SPL in the bass region? In this case, would it be accurate to describe the tone control's contribution in bringing up the bass region as "distortion"? (I don't think so; I think it would be "corrective equalization".)

What about a situation where the recording itself seems to be lacking in low-end energy; is it possible that a tone control could make a worthwhile beneficial contribution in this case? (Again, imo this would be "corrective equalization", not "distortion".)

Probably, but that neutrality would be only in ear of the beholder doing the adjustment.

 

[Buster]

There are still one (stereo)mic recordings being made.... in one take. They can sound great indeed.

For instance (when you like this type of music)

Stones in My Passway...Discovering the music of Robert Johnson part 2. A Sound Liaison 'One Mic +' Audiophile Recording., by Carmen Gomes

15 track album

carmengomes.bandcamp.com

RAY!... A Sound Liaison 'One Mic +' Audiophile Recording., by Carmen Gomes

13 track album

carmengomes.bandcamp.com

"Don't You Cry". A Sound Liaison One Mic Audiophile Recording., by Carmen Gomes

11 track album

carmengomes.bandcamp.com

There is a player on this page that lets you hear all their albums completely.

+1; The latest in that series is their best yet;

Down To The Downtown

"It’s music distilled to its essence, created with minimal means an embodiment of excellence through restraint. And the sound…..recorded by sound wizard Frans de Rond with just one 3-capsule stereo microphone, ensuring that the purity and clarity of these two master musicians' music resonates deeply with the listener. A recording with full phase coherence, perfect imaging, a wide and deep soundstage, and superior realism."

 

[Titurel]

No one that sees a painting or photograph or movie or even holography or VR goggles will ever think they are there. Not sure why this belongs under "measurements".

And to be honest, the last thing I want to do at home is recreate the live music experience. Sure there's some excitement about the social occasion, but as a rule the sound quality is much worse, and the people are loud, etc etc. Spare me that stuff at home. There are preciously few "live albums" I'd listen to rather than the studio version. As a rule, the recorded studio album is far more balanced in every respect.

But with studio recordings, you miss all those carefully timed coughs in the quiet spots.

 

[Theta]

But with studio recordings, you miss all those carefully timed coughs in the quiet spots.

The studio recorded album also misses the immediate interaction between musicians. In recorded studio albums, the guitar solo in the middle of the piece is some times played by a guy who is not even part of the band and added to the mix 6 months later.

 

[GaryY]

This might be silly point, but sometimes I was thinking the different tasteod FR settings by person to person maybe from the different shape of their ears...sorry....

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

Something the subjectivist crowd often brings up. "There are things we cannot measure but the human ear/brain can hear it."

It all comes together.

We can not measure the sound of the voices in a crazy person’s head. They are hearing things that can not be measured.

Logical deduction. They are crazy

 

[Titurel]

It all comes together.

We can not measure the sound of the voices in a crazy person’s head. They are hearing things that can not be measured.

Sorry I can't share my tinnitus with you. Maybe I am crazy.

 

[antcollinet]

I don't see your point. The encounter was what it was. As for company titles, they are highly variable. I've dealt with companies that had 7 levels of vice-president and I worked for a large multinational where the lowest peon was only 7 levels below the board of directors. Job titles were not close to comparable. Plus, the encounter I had was nearly half a century ago and corporate cultures have evolved and job titles with them. As for the fellow with whom I spoke, his job was liaison between dealers and corporate.

The purpose of the anecdote was to give time context to TIM, a problem that went essentially unrecognized, until it suddenly became significant, then, once addressed, went back to being unrecognized as a problem. Why nitpick irrelevant details?

But your point that a factory rep was unaware of TIM therefore TIM was essentially unrecognised doesn't stack up.

TIM could have been widely recognised and a solved problem amongst amplifier designers (who are the only ones who need to know about it), yet completely unknown in other areas of the organisation.

I am certain that none of the Factory managers, or production engineers in the organisation I previously worked for had any significant knowledge of the functioning of the internal thermal modelling and protection of the products in the software - just one example of the hundreds of internal functions they just didn't need to be aware of.

 

[Bob from Florida]

. It's no more complicated than that.

Welcome to the forum. After awhile, you will realize someone on the forums will always find a way to complicate "things".

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

Source?

His personal experience. : - / Isn’t it always?

Why do you need 200khz to transmit signals with no content above (at most) 50khz?

Quantum……quantum something or other

 

[Timcognito]

One of the things that can not be measured is the gullibility of many a so called audiophile. There are no units of gullibility and if there were the range would be large I'm guessing.

 

[Blumlein 88]

One of the things that can not be measured is the gullibility of many a so called audiophile. There are no units of gullibility and if there were the range would be large I'm guessing.

Maybe there could be subjective ratings in dbG?

 

[Titurel]

Maybe there could be subjective ratings in dbG?

Measure in Kilobucks?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Measure in Kilobucks?

I considered that. db$k

 

[Cbdb2]

One of the things that can not be measured is the gullibility of many a so called audiophile. There are no units of gullibility and if there were the range would be large I'm guessing.

And growing.

 

[Keith_W]

One of the things that can not be measured is the gullibility of many a so called audiophile. There are no units of gullibility and if there were the range would be large I'm guessing.

Sure you can. I propose (difference detected by null test +1) / ($). So the unit would be dB/$ or V/$.

The reason I added the +1 is so that you can differentiate between two interventions that null out, but one intervention costs more than another. If it wasn't there, then someone who paid $5 for a power cord would be infinitely gullible.