They say speaker cables do not matter ..

[Ken1951]

I am a scientific nobody, but my suggestion for this type of post is for a Moderator to post a link to the Golden Eared thread and immediately lock the thread in question. Why bother with any other replies?

 

[solderdude]

What is the physics behind it?

See post #18.
The expected unusual high capacitance combined with some audiophile amplifiers could lead to audible effects which could include some ringing (and possibly boost) at high frequencies in combination with certain speaker loads.
It may be this or it could be the usual culprit.
No way to say without any testing at your home (blind tests and electrical measurements).

When your amp doesn't get warmer than before using this cable then its probably safe to keep using it.

Even in case it is placebo and it works for you and you don't mind spending money on it... why not use it and simply feel good about your purchase and gear.

 

[sngreen]

Do you know how often we've heard this before?

Does not it go both ways?

 

[sngreen]

Ohh lord please...not another one like this...why should we be punished every 15 days with this kind of thing...? Is it maybe time to put some sticky for this kind of matters...?

So instead of YOU trying to open a book or research a little bit about the matter, and maybe arrange some study/experiment and present us with actual proofs as to why “cable do matter”...you pretend the other way around?
For us to do the dirty work and waste time to change your mind, meaning that WE must show you proofs as to why cables doesn’t matter (at least in the way audiophool snake oil present it) ??

No boy, if you have claims of cables making a difference, you bring us the justification. And guess what, a single subjective perception means actually nothing. We are not inside your head to corroborate anything, and neither know the control taken for such comparison.

The actual proof would be in numbers, and those do not always tell the full story. Like why bigger and oftentimes oversized transformer make amplifiers sound better - can you prove it by numbers? Or why tube amplifiers sound different from the solid state ones, especially when it comes to imaging - can this be proven by numbers? I never seen it, although I must admit I never looked. No, it is not inside my head, or at least I do not think so. I would not be starting this thread if I had doubts.

 

[sngreen]

If you want these people to help you and discuss about physics, psychoasoustics, etc etc, it doesn't comes for free. You will have first to prove them that there is a difference that a human, you in this case, can hear. If you can eventually prove it to them, you will be rewarded with lots of questions and attention to explain what is going on. Otherwise, this thread is doomed. You have to understand that differences such the one you are describing are very unlikely if the only thing that changes is the speaker cable. If you want to convince anybody that these are real, you have to put some effort in it: set up an experiment, record the results, etc.

But I did not start the thread as an argument, I started it as a question. I see it made no difference.

 

[sngreen]

Let me guess, the more expensive cable sounds the best?

Braided cable is more expensive, by far, and it does not sound the best, just different.

 

[Spkrdctr]

You should always use the cables that sound best to you as they will sound different to others. Cable implementation is very subjective and it is necessary to spend a lot of time getting the ones that sound best for you.

Buy the most expensive cables you can possibly afford. You might even make a reach and get some that are more than you can afford. You will be very happy with what you hear afterwards. You can't spend enough on cables and speaker wire. The more expensive the better. I'd suggest starting at the $1000 level. You have some very nice listening ahead of you. Good Luck!

There, I know I feel better!

 

[sergeauckland]

The actual proof would be in numbers, and those do not always tell the full story. Like why bigger and oftentimes oversized transformer make amplifiers sound better - can you prove it by numbers? Or why tube amplifiers sound different from the solid state ones, especially when it comes to imaging - can this be proven by numbers? I never seen it, although I must admit I never looked. No, it is not inside my head, or at least I do not think so. I would not be starting this thread if I had doubts.

Can you prove it by blind listening?
As to tube amplifiers, can't comment about imaging, as that's created in your head by the brain, but there are many reasons, all measurable, as to why tube amplifiers can and often will sound different, levels of distortion and output impedance are just two.

S.

 

[Apesbrain]

The braided cable (exactly the one as in the image)...

What is the source of this cable?

 

[sngreen]

See post #18.
The expected unusual high capacitance combined with some audiophile amplifiers could lead to audible effects which could include some ringing (and possibly boost) at high frequencies in combination with certain speaker loads.
It may be this or it could be the usual culprit.
No way to say without any testing at your home (blind tests and electrical measurements).

When your amp doesn't get warmer than before using this cable then its probably safe to keep using it.

Even in case it is placebo and it works for you and you don't mind spending money on it... why not use it and simply feel good about your purchase and gear.

This is an interesting point, indeed. Thank you.

 

[voodooless]

The actual proof would be in numbers, and those do not always tell the full story.

That's an oxymoron, isn't it


BTW, what amp is driving these cables?

 

[sngreen]

>> I still cannot see how this is "fully shielded":

What is it with shielded that you keep repeating it? Cable has arrows on it, meaning it is directional, meaning that it is shielded and connected at one end, usually where the signal is coming from (not going to). Could be any other cable as well, just not the braided one.

>> Then do it and come back after that.

Then I did it; I hear it, you don't - who has the proof?

>> Until then, we are not able to comment about a phenomenon that doesn't exist to begin with...

Then do not respond, this was not meant to be an argument.

>> I lost the count a while ago.

Yet you are still drawn to it.

>> I suggest this to new members creating such polarising first thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...iles-posting-at-asr-for-the-first-time.17598/

It's my bad, but I did not expect such a reaction from the veteran member/s.

 

[Spkrdctr]

See post #27. Enjoy!

 

[ahofer]

The difference is not even subtle, if the system it is connect to does pick it up of course, and yes, I would pass the blind test on my system at any time.

I encourage you to perform such a test, and do so properly, with documentation and witnesses. It would be unprecedented, thus *very* interesting, scientifically.

It's my bad, but I did not expect such a reaction from the veteran member/s.

This is a science-driven site, and we have all seen - even perpetrated ourselves - anecdotes of this sort. They just haven't held up in proper testing, especially cable/interconnect claims. That's why you always get the "what's your methodology" question. Believe it or not, there are a few of us who are dying to be proved wrong regarding the strict audibility of differences between electronics, let alone wire. It would make things a lot more interesting. Unfortunately, I'd assign a low, but non-zero, probability to that outcome.

 

[SKBubba]

Speaker cables most definitely matter. Without one, no sound comes out of the speaker.

 

[sngreen]

There is one possibility that can account for a difference in sound. Braided cables have very low inductance and very high capacitance. Some amplifiers are very sensitive to this, as they have been badly designed with marginal stability. What you may be hearing isn't the difference in the cables, but the effects of a crappy amplifier. ANY amplifier worthy of being sold as HiFi, should be unconditionally stable, and immune to cable differences. Sadly, there are several that aren't unconditionally stable, these tend to make a virtue of that fact, with such bollocks as the amplifier is voiced for a certain cable. All it means is that the designer wants to create a mystique for their amps. That, or they have no idea how to design an amp.

S.

Ah, you know I would have my doubts, but the amp is designed by Nelson Pass and built to the specs (F5T). But good point indeed, as here, at 4:45

Now it changes my original question to how often the amplifiers react to capacitance. What would be the advantage of having braided cables to begin with, if they are more expensive and heavier. Note, at the start of this video the presenter mentions that 8TC cable is his favorite, I wonder why he would say that. Especially as - according to him - at the end of the day cables make almost no difference to the sound.

 

[sngreen]

Can you prove it by blind listening?
As to tube amplifiers, can't comment about imaging, as that's created in your head by the brain, but there are many reasons, all measurable, as to why tube amplifiers can and often will sound different, levels of distortion and output impedance are just two.

S.

Sure, would the specs and possible measurements tell you upfront what it would sound like?

 

[Rottmannash]

Ah, you know I would have my doubts, but the amp is designed by Nelson Pass and built to the specs (F5T). But good point indeed, as here, at 4:45

Now it changes my original question to how often the amplifiers react to capacitance. What would be the advantage of having braided cables to begin with, if they are more expensive and heavier. Note, at the start of this video the presenter mentions that 8TC cable is his favorite, I wonder why he would say that. Especially as - according to him - at the end of the day cables make almost no difference to the sound.

He probably feels assured the 8TC cable sends an accurate signal to his speakers-nothing more, nothing less. But you can ask him on his site. I feel cables are like a warm blanket-they assure us we're not losing accuracy of signal between amp and speaker.

 

[NTK]

Sure, would the specs and possible measurements tell you upfront what it would sound like?

It is actually pretty simple. The scientific process is first to determine whether you can tell them apart without you knowing the answer. If you have demonstrated that you can do it reliably, then we can proceed to measurements and look for differences.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Ah, you know I would have my doubts, but the amp is designed by Nelson Pass and built to the specs (F5T). But good point indeed, as here, at 4:45

Now it changes my original question to how often the amplifiers react to capacitance. What would be the advantage of having braided cables to begin with, if they are more expensive and heavier. Note, at the start of this video the presenter mentions that 8TC cable is his favorite, I wonder why he would say that. Especially as - according to him - at the end of the day cables make almost no difference to the sound.

I'm not sure about this video, but he says you can spend money for nice looking wires. That is what he refers to when he talks about nice cables and wires. But, he has said many times that they make no difference in the sound.