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There is no ATC SCM150ASL Pro review or frequency response curve.

He doesn't say that “measurements don't matter”, he clearly says they don't tell you everything of how a speaker sounds and how it performs as a studio tool.
It wasn't me saying that he did say that. :)

What I see is a salesman concentrating on the areas that he's likely to make a sale on and playing down the area where his product is inferior to some of the competition.

Not surprising, it's his job after all and he's correct that there's more to making the selection than just frequency response. Actually, I'm inclined to agree with you that low distortion is more important (assuming FR is within acceptable limits).
 
It was the usual bluster, ‘measurements don’t matter, our customers aren’t interested, measurements don’t entirely explain, we have sold lots of them’ etc etc.
Usual stuff I hear it all the time.
As much as we at ASR would like to see the measurements, he is probably right. I don't think ATC is in any danger of going under because not enough ASR readers are buying their speakers.

Beyond the fact that they don't measure great according standard Spinoroma measurements, has anyone actually heard them AND thought they sounded bad, or even worse than the much cheaper Neumann or Genelec's?
 
Some of the ATC drivers measure amazingly just on their own. Hope they fix any issues their designs might have and provide measurements.

The 3" midrange is pretty cool and measured very well, I can imagine their tweeters and woofers do too! Not hard use a great driver, especially on high price speakers.

From Zaph about the ATC SM75-150S:

"Probably one of the cleanest midrange domes I've tested, with the lower midrange coming close to the noise floor of my measurement setup. Built like a tank - I knew something was up when a 3" dome ships from the factory in a 16" x 16" box. The mild waveuide shape allows for a nicely controlled off axis. The only real downside to this driver is that the flange and magnet effectively make this a 7" midrange, thereby limiting the lowest center to center spacing with the tweeter"
 
Beyond the fact that they don't measure great according standard Spinoroma measurements, has anyone actually heard them AND thought they sounded bad, or even worse than the much cheaper Neumann or Genelec's?

Plenty of users have made comments about the three way ATC's not really keeping up with offerings gen or neumann, but good luck finding them in the 258 page atc thread here. I've only heard one of the 3 ways and felt it was in fact mid forward and lacked clarity, imaging felt nebulous (flat faceplate tweeter on a wide baffle is just a bad idea). I would take KH420 over any ATC any day of the week. Speakers aren't magic, we know what problems there are with certain implementations like wide baffle with 90 degree edges. Their tall boxes have poor porting because they fill the whole cabinet with dampening material to subdue the height related resonances but people decided to twist that into a positive somehow. Lazy engineering imo.
 
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As much as we at ASR would like to see the measurements, he is probably right. I don't think ATC is in any danger of going under because not enough ASR readers are buying their speakers.

Beyond the fact that they don't measure great according standard Spinoroma measurements, has anyone actually heard them AND thought they sounded bad, or even worse than the much cheaper Neumann or Genelec's?

I chose SCM25a MKII over my 8351b which I used for a long time. Admittedly the imaging wasn't quite as pinpoint holographic (it's still excellent), but I could hear more detail / separation and overall I just find it a better sounding speaker. Not NIGHT AND DAY or other hyperbole garbage mind you, the Gens are great speakers too and I could easily work on them happily.

I posted this in the ATC thread here and had half the forum up my ass about how I must be wrong, post measurements, I'm just a fanboi cultist etc. etc. I think I'll trust my own ears mixing music at a high level for 20 years but sure, think what you want.

The ATC and the Gen are around the same price here btw (in Canada). People here really seem to have a hate hard-on for ATC. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Knock yourselves out, they're the best speakers I've ever heard and I've heard / worked on a lot.
 
As much as we at ASR would like to see the measurements, he is probably right. I don't think ATC is in any danger of going under because not enough ASR readers are buying their speakers.

Beyond the fact that they don't measure great according standard Spinoroma measurements, has anyone actually heard them AND thought they sounded bad, or even worse than the much cheaper Neumann or Genelec's?
That’s really the point there are no spinorama measurements.
Keith
 
ATCs are all about the drivers, huge magnets, amp power... without any speaker science. Dumb, heavy, big boxes. (Even PMCs have DSP now.)
 
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Beyond the fact that they don't measure great according standard Spinoroma measurements, has anyone actually heard them AND thought they sounded bad, or even worse than the much cheaper Neumann or Genelec's?
I've compared them; the SCM50ASL Pro is far from a bad speaker (I quite like it, fwiw!) but it certainly lacks low end for its size compared to the similarily sized KH420. It's a little more laid back sonically (maybe a mild presence dip?) but I didn't find it in any way bad or nonperformant. I could and would happily work on them.
 
That’s really the point there are no spinorama measurements.
Keith
I know. My point is that ATC is probably smart to NOT send one to Amir or Erin. Based on what we know about several ATC speakers, they are not going to measure "well". If they were going to measure well, then not only could they rely on their reputation but could point to the wonderful ASR review of them. But given they are unlikely to measure well, but they have an outstanding reputation, they should just rely on their reputation (and of course people actually listening to their speakers at shows or purchases that have a 30 day return policy).

I'm not defending the speakers, just that from an economics point of view it seems pretty rational to me for them to NOT send them to Amir or Erin (or publish more of what they probably have from in-house measurements).
 
I've never seen ATC make any technical claims for the FR of their speakers.
Not even sure where to begin with this, although I am a 'measurista'. Hence the "Studio Monitor" name has a measurement-based meaning to me.


I've always figured it was a non-issue for engineers because they will EQ the setup themselves, and organize the studio to focus on the direct sound (hence bumpy dispersion not a big deal). The ATCs do seem to be reliable and take a lot of punishment, which is important.

Out of the box, the passives I heard (SCM19, 25) sounded awful. I would have liked to see some measurements to help correlate and double check what I thought I was hearing.
 
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Perhaps studios get data, or choose in other ways. Whatever their arrangements they’ve been around for a while and there’s no reason to suppose the 100 or 150 is significantly different to the 50 except in bass extension and total output, surely?

Martin Colloms measured the SCM50 in Hifi Critic, reprinted here…https://atc.audio/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Hi-Fi_Critic_SCM50PSL_WEB.pdf His later review of the Actives references the earlier test and highlights the differences…
The graph scales are quite compressed, but it looks decent. Bit of a dispersion hit in the presence region, but it is a UK maker. I wonder how big those peaks are below 500Hz.
 
Says all I need to know about ATC. In 2024 there is no excuse for not providing data, the whole secretive approach just doesn't cut it anymore when companies like KEF release white papers and even hop on this forum to give people advice on converting their passive KEF to active. Transparency is king.

They know their speakers aren't on par with other offerings, they know they'll lose business if they reveal data on their speakers.
In my day, ATC regularly released white papers discussing the products and giving admittedly smoothed responses. Mind you, things were obviously different then and attitudes maybe not as extreme either way as they seem now (If it's not a full Klippel evaluation it's worthless, while the Chinese market especially wows over the shiny lacquered veneers of the hideous tower versions of the larger models)
 
Having opinions about products and critizing a vendor for not providing scientific measurements do not constitute "hate". I see this accusation a lot, yet I see very little 'hate' here. Even on those occasions when someone accuses a company/poster of 'pseudoscience' or 'snake oil', that is not hate. Naming it 'hate' is just a way of inventing offense in order to socially discredit criticism that is otherwise difficult to refute.
 
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The graph scales are quite compressed, but it looks decent. Bit of a dispersion hit in the presence region, but it is a UK maker. I wonder how big those peaks are below 500Hz.
It's interesting to note that ATC actually designs the home models for grille on - it has a roundover built into it that knocks the diffraction down. The Pro models are designed for use sans grille so have the roundover built into the cabinet.
 
I chose SCM25a MKII over my 8351b which I used for a long time. Admittedly the imaging wasn't quite as pinpoint holographic (it's still excellent), but I could hear more detail / separation and overall I just find it a better sounding speaker. Not NIGHT AND DAY or other hyperbole garbage mind you, the Gens are great speakers too and I could easily work on them happily.

I posted this in the ATC thread here and had half the forum up my ass about how I must be wrong, post measurements, I'm just a fanboi cultist etc. etc. I think I'll trust my own ears mixing music at a high level for 20 years but sure, think what you want.

The ATC and the Gen are around the same price here btw (in Canada). People here really seem to have a hate hard-on for ATC. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Knock yourselves out, they're the best speakers I've ever heard and I've heard / worked on a lot.

I think your mistaking the discussion. Everyone should demo and pick the speakers they prefer - as you have done. Nice!

The dilema we see is we have no starting measurement point for ATC. Nothing to evaluate or compare. Just lots of over the top claims.
 
I think your mistaking the discussion. Everyone should demo and pick the speakers they prefer - as you have done. Nice!

The dilema we see is we have no starting measurement point for ATC. Nothing to evaluate or compare. Just lots of over the top claims.
I think it’s not ATC making claims, as indeed their specs are modest in the extreme. However, there’s presumably a ‘cultural’ difference with buyers of studio models, and I get the curiosity about comparable measurements. I’m only familiar with the domestic/home range where I’ve heard most of the Entry series, and own the SCM40 passives. The Active version is strikingly superior, but were well beyond my budget at the time. I’ve heard the Classic Actives at a dealer demo and they filled a decent sized concert hall/recital room with ease, even when an audience member asked for something more like stadium levels!

We used to live within 30 minutes drive of the factory, and nearby was the HQ for Acoustic Energy and the now defunct AVI. Maybe something about Gloucestershire!? ATC’s service has been exemplary when I’ve had queries, and the dealer I bought from said they were the easiest sales because everyone liked them. Their domestic peers here in UK tend to be the likes of ProAc, PMC, Spendor, Harbeth, and for me the ATC were an easy choice on sound quality, the transferable five year warranty, and sheer engineering excellence (including in-house drivers) for the very fair price.

Studios doubtless have other considerations but I’m sure the factory support and know how is a big factor
 
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The Active version is strikingly superior
Not surprising all things considered; ATC themselves recommend going active every single time.
 
One of my parent's neighbors sold his Neumann KH420 - which measures superbly - to buy the ATC SCM 110, which I think is similar to the 150 in terms of spl and extension. He's happy with the upgrade.
Interesting, I sold my SCMA150 after 14 years and replaced them with KH420. That was 5 years ago. I consider it an upgrade.
 
Not surprising all things considered; ATC themselves recommend going active every single time.
Innovative Audio and Audio Doctor, local high-end retailers that carry ATC, steadfastly refused to get in an active version to demo for me back in 2019. As an added bonus I got lectures on the evil of active loudspeakers, the importance of 'synergy', etc.
 
Innovative Audio and Audio Doctor, local high-end retailers that carry ATC, steadfastly refused to get in an active version to demo for me back in 2019. As an added bonus I got lectures on the evil of active loudspeakers, the importance of 'synergy', etc.
Well, yeah, they can't sell you pointless upgrades that way.
 
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