The wealth-building thread

[EJ3]

I am sorry to hear of your health and income insecurity issues. Get well soon.

Thank you, kindly.
If things go well, it wont be an issue,
just a minor pothole in the road of life.
& today I managed to free up about $17K, putting them in a semi-liquid status
(while keeping a 4% annual rate of return happening), yet simply writing a check
to whomever I have to pay something to will work immediately.
That will certainly get me through the income insecurity part.
Thus allowing me to mentally be free of worries to put my full
concentration on the healing part of my life.

 

[ahofer]

I was born in Austria.
Some years ago I had to close my Austrian bank account that my Austrian grandmother had set up for me because the U.S. government (I am a US Citizen & do not have dual citizenship) considered it an asset.
Money given to me over 30 years in Austria that just sat in a bank account for me for when I came to visit became a taxable asset in a country that had nothing at all to do with it.
One of the many reasons that I now believe that there is NO good government, just better or worse governments.

The US taxes income, unless you died. But when taxing income to US citizens, it doesn’t matter where it was earned. The US is an outlier in that policy.

 

[EJ3]

The US taxes income, unless you died. But when taxing income to US citizens, it doesn’t matter where it was earned. The US is an outlier in that policy.

I was concieved in the USA (and have been in the USA more than any other place) And have great familiarity with this taxing issue. Even when I lived in a place that the USA designated that my income was tax free, I was still required to file a tax form for each of those couple of years.
In this minority of countries, I believe that the USA is MAJORLY on the wrong side of what is moral/ethical.
Absolutely proving to the world that the USA government is not on "moral high ground" with it's citizens.

 

[ahofer]

I was concieved in the USA (and have been in the USA more than any other place) And have great familiarity with this taxing issue. Even when I lived in a place that the USA designated that my income was tax free, I was still required to file a tax form for each of those couple of years.
In this minority of countries, I believe that the USA is MAJORLY on the wrong side of what is moral/ethical.
Absolutely proving to the world that the USA government is not on "moral high ground" with it's citizens.

It is interesting that the States live by the opposite system in the USA. Except for your state of residence, but even there you get a tax credit for the taxes levied by other states.

I suppose the defense would be that if you are a citizen you are entitled to the protection and benefits of the government and you can vote, therefore you are taxed. Personally, I think we should tax consumption (with a steep progressive refund including Freidman’s ‘negative tax’) so I see most tax systems as utterly wrongheaded. People should be encouraged to go out and make money and invest it.

 

[Willem]

Any choice for a particular taxation structure is, of course, a political one (unless levying a tax is hugely cost ineffective). My perhaps very European perspective is that taxation should be used to reduce the social inequality that has increased so much during the last few decades. Moreover I think taxation and the price mechanism should also be used as a disincentive for socially undesirable activities such as polluting the environment.

 

[ahofer]

unless levying a tax is hugely cost ineffective).

My ideas were directed at the most efficient and growth-encouraging way to raise the revenues. How they are used is another matter (although you note my preference for the negative income tax).

 

[madrac]

I understand that there is a portion of income earned outside the US that isn't taxed if you are living in another country and working as an expat. There are caveats around it (e.g. how long you are outside the country, etc.)

The US isn't the only country that taxes income on it's citizens even if the income is earned outside the US. Brazil, for example, is another (I know as I am also a permanent resident of Brazil). That said, neither taxes the income where tax was paid in the other country.

 

[TheBatsEar]

I bought some precious metals, some time ago.

At the moment is has outperformed the S&P500, but that's sheer luck i guess. Right now it's a year or so of living, if i had to sell. In Germany you don't have to pay taxes for buying or profits on physical gold you held for a year (only bars and coins i think, investment stuff). There are plenty of trutworthy gold buying merchants in every city, if i drop a single coin on their table, i get 1800€ or so in return, right there and then, they wont even ask my name.

Feast your eyes on my shiny things

If anyone is interested in what to know about it:

First you have to find a good price. The price is spot (like the stock chart for gold) + premium, for manufacture and profits of all the parties involved. So I go to gold.de, which is a site that compares gold prices from hundreds of stores, look at the regular investment coins, Krugerrand, Britannia, Philharmoniker, Maple Leaf and so on, and pick the current years coin with the lowest premium over spot price.
You can also do it in your local bank, but usually the premium is higher, even if you include shipping. I don't care much about the coin itself, it just has to be perfectly new, 9999 fineness, and low premium, usually below 2% over spot inclusive shipping.

Some accumulate money and buy 1oz (roughly 31 gram) coins if they have saved up enough, which is what i would recommend.
Some buy smaller coins every month, say 1/4oz or 1/10oz weight. That usually costs higher premium, so i'm not sure why they don't accumulate enough for a larger coin.

I buy only well known coins that have security features, they can be sold easily, even on portals like Kleinanzeigen (something like Craigslist), as everyone can verify the coins authenticity. That is why i don't do bars or jewelry, which often come with higher premium anyway.
I stay away from numismatic value coins, that is particularly old or rare coins with collectors value, i guess it's like collecting stamps or something, i don't care about that. For me it's just another form of wealth.

If you have just a few coins, say 5oz of gold, just keep it at home. If you have more than that a safe might be a good idea. If you have a lot more, you can think about paying your bank to put it into their safe.
There is also the option to buy ETF like securities for gold, just like any other commodity like lean hogs, oil, wheat or orange juice, but then you have to pay taxes on profits.

The gold space is filled with pessimists that tell you tales of fear, uncertainty and doubt. It's all BS, these guys don't know more than you or anyone and predicted the collapse of everything since forever. Gold should be seen as a tool for accumulating wealth instead.

Thats it, my take on gold. Right now gold prices are high, but maybe that is the right moment to research it and then pounce once there is a pullback (there always are pullbacks). Some more pics:

 

[ahofer]

Ignore that noise, it's all BS, these guys don't know more than you or anyone.

True of most anyone selling a financial instrument these days, although goldbugs are a vivid example.

I have my doubts as to whether, if we are all running around in the Hobbesian landscape of the US collapse, whether people will give you stuff for gold coins. I’m thinking ammunition, canned food, fuel, and generators.

 

[TheBatsEar]

There was a time when P2P credits where a thing. Are any of you still invested in that?

 

[Tom C]

I bought some precious metals, some time ago.

At the moment is has outperformed the S&P500, but that's sheer luck i guess. Right now it's a year or so of living, if i had to sell. In Germany you don't have to pay taxes for buying or profits on physical gold you held for a year (only bars and coins i think, investment stuff). There are plenty of trutworthy gold buying merchants in every city, if i drop a single coin on their table, i get 1800€ or so in return, right there and then, they wont even ask my name.

Feast your eyes on my shiny things
View attachment 332795

If anyone is interested in what to know about it:

First you have to find a good price. The price is spot (like the stock chart for gold) + premium, for manufacture and profits of all the parties involved. So I go to gold.de, which is a site that compares gold prices from hundreds of stores, look at the regular investment coins, Krugerrand, Britannia, Philharmoniker, Maple Leaf and so on, and pick the current years coin with the lowest premium over spot price.
You can also do it in your local bank, but usually the premium is higher, even if you include shipping. I don't care much about the coin itself, it just has to be perfectly new, 9999 fineness, and low premium, usually below 2% over spot inclusive shipping.

Some accumulate money and buy 1oz (roughly 31 gram) coins if they have saved up enough, which is what i would recommend.
Some buy smaller coins every month, say 1/4oz or 1/10oz weight. That usually costs higher premium, so i'm not sure why they don't accumulate enough for a larger coin.

I buy only well known coins that have security features, they can be sold easily, even on portals like Kleinanzeigen (something like Craigslist), as everyone can verify the coins authenticity. That is why i don't do bars or jewelry, which often come with higher premium anyway.
I stay away from numismatic value coins, that is particularly old or rare coins with collectors value, i guess it's like collecting stamps or something, i don't care about that. For me it's just another form of wealth.

If you have just a few coins, say 5oz of gold, just keep it at home. If you have more than that a safe might be a good idea. If you have a lot more, you can think about paying your bank to put it into their safe.
There is also the option to buy ETF like securities for gold, just like any other commodity like lean hogs, oil, wheat or orange juice, but then you have to pay taxes on profits.

The gold space is filled with pessimists that tell you tales of fear, uncertainty and doubt. It's all BS, these guys don't know more than you or anyone and predicted the collapse of everything since forever. Gold should be seen as a tool for accumulating wealth instead.

Thats it, my take on gold. Right now gold prices are high, but maybe that is the right moment to research it and then pounce once there is a pullback (there always are pullbacks). Some more pics:
View attachment 332806
View attachment 332807
View attachment 332809

I remember reading once, that a buyer will accept a coin like this if it is still sealed in its case, but if you break the seal and remove the coin from its case, the coin has to be assayed before sale. I guess a person could shave a bit off each coin, and then it’d be less weight than face value. Is that true in your country?

 

[TheBatsEar]

I remember reading once, that a buyer will accept a coin like this if it is still sealed in its case, but if you break the seal and remove the coin from its case, the coin has to be assayed before sale. I guess a person could shave a bit off each coin, and then it’d be less weight than face value. Is that true in your country?

It's true in every country, however, it's only about numismatic value, wich can be very high.
I talk about nothing but the gold value.

You buy a rare coin, say a silver Drachm from the second century in Greece. You send it to a grading service, say NGC, they grade it and say it's real and in a certain condition, then they seal it in plastic. Now you can sell the coin to others and they don't have to get a specialist to make sure it's really what you are saying it is.

None of that applies to investment coins. My coins are manufactured in large numbers every year and you really just look at their spot value. They may gain numismatic value, that is, value beyond the metal, but only in a few hundred years or so.
Some are artificially manufactured in low amounts to gain numismatic value. I don't look at them. For me it's just bullion coins, pure metal value coins (plus a few percent for manufacturing).

These are well known investment coins, left the Maple Leaf from Canada, and the Britannia from the UK. Both have security features so even a layman can tell if they are real or not.

For example, Lady Britannia has a circle that either displays a trident or lock, depending on how you look at it. Sorry for the bizarre picture, i don't know how to make a better gif. Anyway, it's very hard to fake. It has has a wavy pattern as a background and there are some more things in the shield and the circle that surrounds lady Brittanias picture.
Once you know, you can pretty easily tell this coin from a fake, without pricey measurement devices. The Maple Leaf is equally easy to verify.

Not all coins have such features, for example, this is a Krugerrand from 1981:

It has the same value in gold as the other coins, but only a coin shop would have a device that enables them to make sure it's not a Chinese fake.

That said, there are gold coin fakes on Aliexpress in copious amounts ;-). It's best to only buy from trusted sources or buy coins with strong authentication features.

 

[AudioAaron]

I wish the crypto thread was still around. BTC is up 115% on the 1yr chart. Dow is up 12%. But grandpa says its a beanie baby bubble.

It deserves a place in most portfolios imo nfa.

 

[Chromatischism]

I think most people don't understand it. But there's a price for that, like finally coming around to the idea but then it's already over $100K.

 

[blueone]

I think most people don't understand it. But there's a price for that, like finally coming around to the idea but then it's already over $100K.

I think a lot of us understand it completely, but we still don't like it and won't invest in it.

 

[OCA]

This is a forum where trolls mostly write about their great experience with Dirac. BTC is a bit out of its scope.

 

[sdrichard]

I think a lot of us understand it completely, but we still don't like it and won't invest in it.

Everyone has their comfort level, even (or especially) for professional investors. A disciplined investor would not touch a great idea when it is outside of their 'investment thesis.' The truth is, no one can predict the future. People lose a lot of money in things they do understand as well.

Ultimately, BTC will be treated as a store of value, like gold. It has reached $1T market cap. Based on it's built-in limited supply, wide spread ownership, and upcoming halving, there's a very good chance it will reach $100k in a relatively short time.

The above is purely my personal speculation, and I am not a trained investment professional.

 

[droid2000]

This is a forum where trolls mostly write about their great experience with Dirac. BTC is a bit out of its scope.

What's wrong with Dirac? I love it (and bitcoin).

 

[beeface]

I'll buy finally buy BTC, I just need it to crash once more first

 

[blueone]

Everyone has their comfort level, even (or especially) for professional investors. A disciplined investor would not touch a great idea when it is outside of their 'investment thesis.' The truth is, no one can predict the future. People lose a lot of money in things they do understand as well.

Ultimately, BTC will be treated as a store of value, like gold. It has reached $1T market cap. Based on it's built-in limited supply, wide spread ownership, and upcoming halving, there's a very good chance it will reach $100k in a relatively short time.

The above is purely my personal speculation, and I am not a trained investment professional.

It's just me. I usually refuse to hold assets for investment which either don't provide a return or actually cost money to hold, or are valued just by a small group of collectors or speculators. Like land, additional homes, watches, precious stones, or gold and crypto currencies. My wife has argued for undeveloped land, and I've been tempted occasionally, but property taxes and having to defend it against squatters turns me off.