The Waxwing Thread

[LewisWaddo]

The built in DAC is perfectly adequate. No external DAC is going to be audibly better - especially given the inherent limitations of the source (vinyl) which by far swamps any imperfections in half way decent DAC designs.


The main benefit of the optical connection is complete elimination of any common mode noise.

I use the waxwing on a few sources. Not just vinyl. At line level input the SNR is considerably higher. I also have a very large collection of DBX vinyl. All take advantage of an improved DAC.

 

[antcollinet]

At line level input the SNR is considerably higher.

That makes no sense to me. The gain of the input will have no bearing on the SNR of the DAC stage.


EDIT : I'd also expect the SNR for the input to by very much better at line level than at 40dB gain.

 

[LewisWaddo]

That makes no sense to me. The gain of the input will have no bearing on the SNR of the DAC stage.


EDIT : I'd also expect the SNR for the input to by very much better at line level than at 40dB gain.

but is does for the overall device, and for signals from sources with higher SNR than vinyl. Whatever… haha I can’t be arsed arguing over this lol.

 

[Laush]

I also use the waxwing via tape out loops for several different sources and outputs. Shannon plans to add some additional PEQs soon.

 

[Bland_username42069]

You can seemingly get a better SNR from using a different phono stage. Putting waxwing in the tape loop just for noise reduction seems entirely valid to me.

Whether that better SNR is audible is another matter

 

[antcollinet]

You can seemingly get a better SNR from using a different phono stage. Putting waxwing in the tape loop just for noise reduction seems entirely valid to me.

Whether that better SNR is audible is another matter

Agreed - but that is what I was questioning - which was about the benefit of using an external DAC - which seems limited to me.

 

[Bland_username42069]

Agreed - but that is what I was questioning - which was about the benefit of using an external DAC - which seems limited to me.

Well quite - it’s what happens before the DAC that’s the limiter.

Whether it’s the adc in the waxwing or the record thats the bottleneck seems more debatable depending on how you measure phono stages and signal to noise of vinyl.

 

[AudioJester]

Random question guys.

My teenage daughter has got us back into vinyl. Currently using an old denon 3600 as phono/pre. I dont think its very good.

Have lots of dacs for digital input, but none with analogue input.

Would I notice much difference between the Waxwing and a Fosi box x5 with minidsp pocket adc?

 

[Salt]

The Waxwing is the Swiss Army Knife for anything around vinyl playback. If one can afford it, buy it, and your'e done.

 

[Bland_username42069]

Random question guys.

My teenage daughter has got us back into vinyl. Currently using an old denon 3600 as phono/pre. I dont think its very good.

Have lots of dacs for digital input, but none with analogue input.

Would I notice much difference between the Waxwing and a Fosi box x5 with minidsp pocket adc?

I doubt it. Another option is Minidsp adept which has a digital out.

Personally think if you’re just playing good condition stereo records then waxwing is overkill but if you want to throw anything at your turntable then it reigns supreme (at any price)

 

[JeffS7444]

Would I notice much difference between the Waxwing and a Fosi box x5 with minidsp pocket adc?

I'd expect everyone to hear a pretty obvious difference, because Waxwing can remove most clicks, pops, and swooshing noise: Those are some of it's most popular features.

 

[harkpabst]

Would I notice much difference between the Waxwing and a Fosi box x5 with minidsp pocket adc?

The Fosi is overrated. You must read the entire review thread here to see where some of the criticism comes from.

In my personal view every phono pre must have a subsonic/rumble filter, irrespective of the quality of your record player. The medium itself calls for it. The Fosi doesn't.

 

[antcollinet]

Would I notice much difference between the Waxwing and a Fosi box x5 with minidsp pocket adc?

Yes - if you take advantage of the DSP features - and especially magic.

 

[AudioJester]

Waxwing ordered!

 

[dpippel]

I've had my Waxwing for about a week now, and I must say that this little device is astonishing. Its capabilities are wide-ranging and useful, the form factor is nice, and the app control is amazingly granular yet easy to use. There are SO many ways to tweak things! I've been doing some A/B comparisons with my Cambridge Audio Alva Duo, with no extra processing engaged on the Waxwing - it's running on factory defaults.

These are both *excellent* sounding phono preamps, there's no doubt about it. The Alva has a slightly more expansive soundstage, but just ever so slightly. The Waxwings real strength is that it's so adjustable, and I need to dedicate some time to sitting down and playing around with all of its functionality. One feature I'm already completely in love with is the Logging function, which keeps track of the time you're playing music (and adding wear to your cartridge/stylus) automatically. This thing is literally a Swiss army knife for vinyl playback. You really get a HELLUVA lot for $500 IMO.

My gear chain is: Rega P6 with ND5 -> Alva Duo/Waxwing -> Yamaha RX-A8A AVR -> Onix Rocket RS750 speakers + SVS PB12 NSD sub.

 

[Laika2]

I've had my Waxwing for about a week now, and I must say that this little device is astonishing. Its capabilities are wide-ranging and useful, the form factor is nice, and the app control is amazingly granular yet easy to use. There are SO many ways to tweak things! I've been doing some A/B comparisons with my Cambridge Audio Alva Duo, with no extra processing engaged on the Waxwing - it's running on factory defaults.

These are both *excellent* sounding phono preamps, there's no doubt about it. The Alva has a slightly more expansive soundstage, but just ever so slightly. The Waxwings real strength is that it's SO adjustable, and I need to dedicate some time to sitting down and playing around with all of its functionality. One feature I'm already completely in love with is the Logging function, which keeps track of the time you're playing music (and adding wear to your cartridge/stylus) automatically. This thing is literally a Swiss army knife for vinyl playback. You really get a HELLUVA lot for $500 IMO.

My gear chain is: Rega P6 with ND5 -> Alva Duo/Waxwing -> Yamaha RX-A8A AVR -> Onix Rocket RS750 speakers + SVS PB12 NSD sub.

I was wondering if I even needed a phono preamp for my Denon 6800 7.4.4 system so I bought a Fosi X5 cheap, highly rated here. No real loss of no improvement. It was a big improvement, then like you I want with the Cambridge Audio Alva Duo (2 actually for upstairs and downstairs systems. Liked it a bit better, lower noise floor, when cranked no hiss like the X5 (which was audible but mostly on dead wax, no big deal). Then I went with a Waxwing, then a second Waxwing.

It's great, endgame, I use it to adjust sound to taste, some LP's are iffy even if new, mass produced in huge numbers, often a lack of Bass compared to the CD or just a high pitched mess, I have found "Air" and "Warmth" to improve poorly masters albums, often to damn near audiophile standards (to my ears).

One hint, AIR and WARMTH seem to be opposites in what they do. When I used to add Warmth a few notches I often had the peaking indicator appear often.

To prevent peaking, if you want WARMTH, take AIR down, not WARMTH up, and the opposite for AIR, want that extra detail, take WARMTH down, not AIR up. Of course do what sounds good to you but I found when I raised a few things a bit, like Warmth and bass a few notches, the line clips faster. I have also have avoided clipping by raising WARMTH 1 notch and lower AIR one notch. (Keeping a balance of not raising all things and overloading the line.

MAIN SYSTEM Project RPM5 Ortophon LVB250 Black
UPSTAIRS SYSTEM Project Carbon EVO with many upgrades and Ortophon LVB250 Black

 

[Laika2]

Waxwing ordered!

You won't be disappointed, no one ever is. It's fun to read over at Hoffmans, Pure Analog guys, no digital for most, one of these guys will buy a Waxwing and brag about it endlessly. To me, it sounds more Analog than Analog due to the swiss army knife tools.

 

[AudioJester]

Waxwing arrived, 5 days after ordering - from San Diego to Sydney.

Works straight out of the box, phone app auto connects. Very compact device.

Magic is as you all described!
Will take some time to work out all the options/settings but allready a big step up from my Denon AVR.

 

[Balle Clorin]

One hint, AIR and WARMTH seem to be opposites in what they do. When I used to add Warmth a few notches I often had the peaking indicator appear often.

If you get clipping ** - not related to record clicks-just simply reduce gain 1-2dB..

 

[Laika2]

If you get clipping ** - not related to record clicks-just simply reduce gain 1-2dB..

Great tip and that's what I had to day one, 38 to 36. If I use much warmth or bass boost I either need to go down to 34 (and make it up with the master pre amp (not the waxwing) to make up the difference to listen at the level I like, one can decrease output a few dbs in the waxwing app to do the same and make it up in the master preamp volume.

None of that is hard of course, and really puts me in the same place, no clipping, still have the volume I want.

I just find it easier to address issues sort of in the worth, too much air, don't raise warmth, lower air. I find this a bit quick as there is not clipping so I don't need to watch for signs of clipping in the amp.

It all works for the clipping issue, just depends how people deal with it. No wrong, all right no matter how you do the above.