The Waxwing Thread

[somebodyelse]

Has anyone tried a browser based implementation of the controls using the Web Bluetooth API?

 

[ejr]

Wasn't it arthrosis that hindered ? ?

It hindered my being able to use the app as precisely as I would have liked.

 

[ejr]

You weren’t taking the output of the preamp in the turntable and putting it into the Waxwing, were you? Because if you were, the 2x (approx) 40dB gain of the two preamps (the one in the turntable followed by the Waxwing) in series would certainly make a very loud and very nasty sound with everything overloaded and clipping like hell, requiring you to turn down everything to zero.

Once you turned everything down, it would also give you ...

Due to applying 2x the RIAA curve, resulting in bass boosted by 20dB too much, and highs turned down by 20dB too much.

Based on your description, I am pretty confident this is what happened.

When you get your replacement phono preamp, make sure you use the low (cartridge) level output of your turntable - and not the one coming from the turntable’s preamp. Or it might be the same connections but with a switch to bypass the preamp. EDIT See my comment below about using a simple RCA to toslink converter - I don't believe you will see any benefit from using a separate phono preamp from the one you have in the turntable.

If you tell us what turntable you have, we'll be able to give specific guidance.



EDIT I've just seen one of your earlier posts - and unless things have changed, you have an audio technica turntable with built in phono preamp, and a switch to bypass it.

Given this - then if all you are looking for is an optical connection to your DAC, then you can do this with a simple RCA to Toslink converter for around £$20, using the built in phono pre in the turntable to feed it. If you go this route, make sure you get an ADC (RCA to Toslink) and not the reverse (DAC to RCA)

EG:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Converter-Optical-Toslink-Soundbar/dp/B09YCQG9JV/ref=sr_1_7

Audio-Technica AT-LP60XBT. I corresponded with Shannon Parks prior to my purchase of the Waxwing and connected it as he advised.

 

[ejr]

Or spend a little more for a MiniDSP PocketADC if you want one with known-good measured performance.

Yes, I am considering that, if the cheaper one that I purchased doesn't work out.

For what it's worth, prior to trying the Waxwing, I first tried replacing my DAC (the Loxjie D60 Pro) with the Fosi Audio ZH3. I had no problem getting the turntable to work with it and records sounded just like they did with any other preamp or integrated amp. But I didn't like the DAC as much as the Loxjie D60, even on streaming audio and my CD player. I know a lot of people swear by these AKM chips, but I didn't like this one. But, again, all of us are listening with different ears -- so comparisons from one person to another are essentially meaningless unless we are talking only about the relative differences.

 

[Bland_username42069]

Audio-Technica AT-LP60XBT. I corresponded with Shannon Parks prior to my purchase of the Waxwing and connected it as he advised.

If you were using the internal preamp on the turntable before it does sound like you were taking a line out signal from the deck and then running it through another preamp (the waxwing) where it applied RIAA curve again (hence sounding horrible as you describe) and really loud (as it was applying a ton more gain to a line input)

Flicking the preamp switch on the back off the turntable should have cured the problem.

 

[antcollinet]

Audio-Technica AT-LP60XBT. I corresponded with Shannon Parks prior to my purchase of the Waxwing and connected it as he advised.

I'm certain he didn't advise you to leave the internal phone pre of the turntable switched in, though it is possible he was not aware your turntable has a built in preamp. The connections of course would be the same. For connection to any external phono pre amp, it would be necessary to have the switch set to the phono position.

Having said that, the result for you is the right one. You don't need to spend $500 on the waxwing when your turntable can connect directly to an ADC (like the pocked ADC) and give you the toslink connection you want at much lower cost.

From the manual for your turntable:

If you decide to go straight to an RCA to TOSLINK converter (similar to the one I linked - or the Pocket ADC, you will need the switch in the line position.

 

[ejr]

I followed the directions I was given. I no longer have the Waxwing, so I can't retest.

 

[Soniclife]

I followed the directions I was given. I no longer have the Waxwing, so I can't retest.

What were those directions?

 

[ejr]

What were those directions?

"Thanks so much for the email, Ed. Happy to answer your questions:

- Use the turntable output with the switch set to PHONO and hook up the ground wire to the Waxwing's ground terminal.

- Then you can connect to the Eversolo with the coax connection. You'll have to change the Waxwing's setting via the app: change 'Output' from 'Analog' to '24/96'. Fidelity should be the same on all of those digital connections - not a concern.

Hope this helps.

Warm Regards,

Shannon Parks"

I pasted the above from the email I received from Parks Audio. (NOTE - At the time I had an Eversolo A6. I have since replaced it with a Loxjie D60 DAC/Preamp.)

 

[Bland_username42069]

And also those checkmark and double check mark when you open a setting, when you hit the one check-mark you show graphically what the setting does, it shows as a db range, how much of a boost, where, how high it goes, when it slopes back down and ends. Lets say you have both air and bass boost on, in either setting hit the check marks twice and it will show a graph of change for all settings so you can see total changes, in this case air and bass boost, if more settings were changed you can see all settings by hitting the two checkmarks in any setting. So this statement is wrong. """Not much in the way of explanation, or even a manual, to explain how to determine what everything does and which settings to use. It seems to be designed for engineers rather than musicians or casual listeners.""

I read this and thought does it??? I can’t remember seeing that

Decided to have a 78s session today and sure enough there it is - a nice graphic of each eq curve and a visualisation of changing settings as I fought to try and make an old Brunswick less shrill and recover some bass.

Doing it all from listening position is the height of luxury. Best I’ve ever heard 78s in my set up

 

[Laika2]

I read this and thought does it??? I can’t remember seeing that

Decided to have a 78s session today and sure enough there it is - a nice graphic of each eq curve and a visualisation of changing settings as I fought to try and make an old Brunswick less shrill and recover some bass.

Doing it all from listening position is the height of luxury. Best I’ve ever heard 78s in my set up

Glad to help, there are a bunch of pre built 78 curves in there also. Go to EQ, Hit instructions to read about 78s then just start hitting + for the different curves labels used on 78s.

 

[LewisWaddo]

I bought one of these and returned it the next day. This is certainly a quality piece of hardware. It looks like it was made with top notch components. However, the app required to run it -- notwithstanding whatever its capabilities may be -- looks amatureish and cumbersome, not much more than a long list of text that you have to scroll through and primative-looking sliders that are difficult to use with my arthritic hands. Not much in the way of explanation, or even a manuel, to explain how to determine what everthing does and which settings to use. It seems to be designed for engineers rather than musicians or casual listeners.

Worse, it seems to be designed with the idea that records need to be vigorously tweaked to sound good (or that everyone who listens to them wants them to sound like a digital source). I can take my turntable and plug it into any preamp or integrated amp and the output sounds pretty much the same. When I played records on the Waxwing, I had to spend more time tweaking the app to get them to sound like they always have on every system that I have owned since the early 1970s.

So, if you're like me, and you just don't want to have to use a separate system for listening to records, the Waxwing is probably not the device for you. I'm going to try a much simpler analog to coax or optical converter box, such as those sold cheap on Amazon, or go back to using my old Emotiva preamp with my turnable and invest in another pair of powered speakers.

Wow!

Unable to get over a very simple learning curve for what I would say is one of the best phono stages money can buy. The app is so easy to use… madness… but whatever haha I guess set and forget is too much some some. Probably better off streaming than messing about with vinyl.

 

[antcollinet]

Wow!

Unable to get over a very simple learning curve for what I would say is one of the best phono stages money can buy. The app is so easy to use… madness… but whatever haha I guess set and forget is too much some some. Probably better off streaming than messing about with vinyl.

Or as an alternative take:

For a person who only needed a digital output from their turntable that already has a built in phono stage, the waxing is overkill compared with a simple RCA to Toslink converter"

In other words - the result is correct for the person referenced. They can get what they need for $20 to $60 instead of $500 for the waxwing.


I speak as a person who loves my waxwing. @ejr doesn't need one.

 

[Salt]

Would correct to @ejr doesn't see to need one

 

[LewisWaddo]

Or as an alternative take:

For a person who only needed a digital output from their turntable that already has a built in phono stage, the waxing is overkill compared with a simple RCA to Toslink converter"

In other words - the result is correct for the person referenced. They can get what they need for $20 to $60 instead of $500 for the waxwing.


I speak as a person who loves my waxwing. @ejr doesn't need one.

That’s fair enough.

 

[ejr]

I had some issues with the cheap ADCs that I was considering, including the miniDSP. They tend to use uncommon power cables and those cables are too short for my rack. (I need at least 6ft.) Something with an standard AC cable (with or without a power brick), like all my other components, is what I am looking for.

Meanwhile, the display screen on my Loxjie D60 is getting wonky again. So, now I am considering replacing the DAC/preamp in this system with one that includes an analog input for a turntable as well. There aren't many. Only one current model that I can find uses the DAC chip that I prefer (and use in all my systems) -- the ESS ES9039MSPRO.

I have been corresponding with D&N about the Alpha Pro. Unfortunately, it only outputs the analog connection to the headphone jacks. However, they seem to be interested in correcting this in future models. (Also in offering optional black cases.)

 

[antcollinet]

I had some issues with the cheap ADCs that I was considering, including the miniDSP.

Is this post related to the waxwing in some way? . If the intent is to use a waxwing as the phone pre connected to a DAC analogue input - why bother? You will likely get a better result with the digital output of the waxwing directly into the DAC. (Though the measurable difference will not be audible)

Only one current model that I can find uses the DAC chip that I prefer (and use in all my systems) -- the ESS ES9039MSPRO.

Either way, If you could let go of the misapprehension that the DAC chip used matters in any way compared with the measured performance of a DAC device - then you would open your options up a little. Albeit - having had a look - not much.

Don't most of the ADC's plug into a wall wart with USB connection - if so, you can simply use a USB extender cable to solve the length problem.

 

[LewisWaddo]

I had some issues with the cheap ADCs that I was considering, including the miniDSP. They tend to use uncommon power cables and those cables are too short for my rack. (I need at least 6ft.) Something with an standard AC cable (with or without a power brick), like all my other components, is what I am looking for.

Meanwhile, the display screen on my Loxjie D60 is getting wonky again. So, now I am considering replacing the DAC/preamp in this system with one that includes an analog input for a turntable as well. There aren't many. Only one current model that I can find uses the DAC chip that I prefer (and use in all my systems) -- the ESS ES9039MSPRO.

I have been corresponding with D&N about the Alpha Pro. Unfortunately, it only outputs the analog connection to the headphone jacks. However, they seem to be interested in correcting this in future models. (Also in offering optional black cases.)

It’s almost as though the waxwing is the better option. Having the ability to monitor clipping in the input or output stage of the DAC is also a huge benefit to having the waxwing. You can’t do that with a cheap ADC. And with the variation in cartridge outputs, you are just playing Russian roulette with the setup in terms of performance. New app update is being rolled out soon that allows users to ‘skin’ the app, akin to Winamp and windows media player in the early 00’s

I’ll petition Shannon regarding an “easy” mode that perhaps automates as much as possible and reduces the wall of text.

 

[antcollinet]

It’s almost as though the waxwing is the better option.

Yes, a better option - but 5 to 25 times the price of a cheap ADC.

 

[somebodyelse]

It’s almost as though the waxwing is the better option. Having the ability to monitor clipping in the input or output stage of the DAC is also a huge benefit to having the waxwing. You can’t do that with a cheap ADC

It depends whether your system has digital clipping indication, and whether you've got an attenuator inline between the phono amp and the cheap ADC. If you have both it's quick and easy to dial in with your hottest recording.