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The Waxwing Thread

I bought one of these and returned it the next day. This is certainly a quality piece of hardware. It looks like it was made with top notch components. However, the app required to run it -- notwithstanding whatever its capabilities may be -- looks amatureish and cumbersome, not much more than a long list of text that you have to scroll through and primative-looking sliders that are difficult to use with my arthritic hands. Not much in the way of explanation, or even a manuel, to explain how to determine what everthing does and which settings to use. It seems to be designed for engineers rather than musicians or casual listeners.

Worse, it seems to be designed with the idea that records need to be vigorously tweaked to sound good (or that everyone who listens to them wants them to sound like a digital source). I can take my turntable and plug it into any preamp or integrated amp and the output sounds pretty much the same. When I played records on the Waxwing, I had to spend more time tweaking the app to get them to sound like they always have on every system that I have owned since the early 1970s.

So, if you're like me, and you just don't want to have to use a separate system for listening to records, the Waxwing is probably not the device for you. I'm going to try a much simpler analog to coax or optical converter box, such as those sold cheap on Amazon, or go back to using my old Emotiva preamp with my turnable and invest in another pair of powered speakers.
Everyone has personal preference in the way things work, however, the App has explanations for every function in the list. Simply tap the function and the explanation appears. Example below. Anyone considering the Waxwing can download the App and test run the App without purchasing the unit.
IMG_0855.jpeg
 
I bought one of these and returned it the next day. This is certainly a quality piece of hardware. It looks like it was made with top notch components. However, the app required to run it -- notwithstanding whatever its capabilities may be -- looks amatureish and cumbersome, not much more than a long list of text that you have to scroll through and primative-looking sliders that are difficult to use with my arthritic hands. Not much in the way of explanation, or even a manuel, to explain how to determine what everthing does and which settings to use. It seems to be designed for engineers rather than musicians or casual listeners.

Worse, it seems to be designed with the idea that records need to be vigorously tweaked to sound good (or that everyone who listens to them wants them to sound like a digital source). I can take my turntable and plug it into any preamp or integrated amp and the output sounds pretty much the same. When I played records on the Waxwing, I had to spend more time tweaking the app to get them to sound like they always have on every system that I have owned since the early 1970s.

So, if you're like me, and you just don't want to have to use a separate system for listening to records, the Waxwing is probably not the device for you. I'm going to try a much simpler analog to coax or optical converter box, such as those sold cheap on Amazon, or go back to using my old Emotiva preamp with my turnable and invest in another pair of powered speakers.

Alternatively you can plug it in out of the box - not touch the app and it will work just as any other phono pre.

And if you want to use the features, the app is there. And for most of them, once you have it set up how you like you don't need to touch the app again.
 
You could, but I don't know why you would - the bits you get to via the app are the only reason to pick a Waxwing over an Adept, Spartan etc. that would cost you less and measure better.
This is the nub of it for me.
If you play less than mint mono records then waxwing super mono will make a difference
If you play 78s and pre RIAA then it’s a godsend
If you want to EQ cart and don’t have eq anywhere else in your system then it’s useful
If you need a digital out then it has it
If you play less than mint stereo then magic is a very decent noise reduction.
If you need volume control on the preamp then it has it


However if you just play high grade stereo or mono lps into an integrated / avr then there cheaper, better options, with better specs like classic audio etc imo.
 
I bought one of these and returned it the next day. This is certainly a quality piece of hardware. It looks like it was made with top notch components. However, the app required to run it -- notwithstanding whatever its capabilities may be -- looks amatureish and cumbersome, not much more than a long list of text that you have to scroll through and primative-looking sliders that are difficult to use with my arthritic hands. Not much in the way of explanation, or even a manuel, to explain how to determine what everthing does and which settings to use. It seems to be designed for engineers rather than musicians or casual listeners.

Worse, it seems to be designed with the idea that records need to be vigorously tweaked to sound good (or that everyone who listens to them wants them to sound like a digital source). I can take my turntable and plug it into any preamp or integrated amp and the output sounds pretty much the same. When I played records on the Waxwing, I had to spend more time tweaking the app to get them to sound like they always have on every system that I have owned since the early 1970s.

So, if you're like me, and you just don't want to have to use a separate system for listening to records, the Waxwing is probably not the device for you. I'm going to try a much simpler analog to coax or optical converter box, such as those sold cheap on Amazon, or go back to using my old Emotiva preamp with my turnable and invest in another pair of powered speakers.
Whow.

Yes, please buy a "much simpler analog to coax or optical converter box, such as those sold cheap on Amazon" and be happy with that. You are obviously not the right target group for a waxwing.
 
No need to be harsh. He has explained, why, and that, he does not need all that 'goodies' of the waxwing.
But You're right, one question remains: why should he have ordered one instead of mor fitting offers??
 
You could, but I don't know why you would - the bits you get to via the app are the only reason to pick a Waxwing over an Adept, Spartan etc. that would cost you less and measure better.
Agreed - but demonstrates the degree to which you need to interact with the app is not that great. I got it mainly for the magic function and the digital output. In theory, I could have connected it up, opened the app. Enabled magic, set output to digital. Closed the app, and never used it again.

But I'm a tinkerer - so I experiment all the time. In particular the filters are great for getting vinyl tonality to match my other sources so I don't have to mess around when I swap between vinyl and the others.
 
No need to be harsh. He has explained, why, and that, he does not need all that 'goodies' of the waxwing.
But You're right, one question remains: why should he have ordered one instead of mor fitting offers??
I was sarcastic, that's true.

However, the criticism expressed seems not reasonably to me at all. And the conclusion is ridiculous.

It would have been better to just ignored such a post.
 
Everyone has personal preference in the way things work, however, the App has explanations for every function in the list. Simply tap the function and the explanation appears. Example below. Anyone considering the Waxwing can download the App and test run the App without purchasing the unit.
View attachment 513123
And also those checkmark and double check mark when you open a setting, when you hit the one check-mark you show graphically what the setting does, it shows as a db range, how much of a boost, where, how high it goes, when it slopes back down and ends. Lets say you have both air and bass boost on, in either setting hit the check marks twice and it will show a graph of change for all settings so you can see total changes, in this case air and bass boost, if more settings were changed you can see all settings by hitting the two checkmarks in any setting. So this statement is wrong. """Not much in the way of explanation, or even a manual, to explain how to determine what everything does and which settings to use. It seems to be designed for engineers rather than musicians or casual listeners.""

I have had albums that are not mixed well, hard to hear vocals and so forth, this thing is great for remixing a muddy sounding album to something acceptable. The author sent it back to fast, I fully say one should send it back if they don't like it but first one needs to try the features, which are very easy and learnable in 15 minutes with the on board explanations and the curves you are creating (think a REW reading, that's what the graphs look like. Without using any EQ why even buy one, maybe a few tools for setup but that can be done other ways such as gain and asimith.

It's a hell of a unit and quick to learn, once you have that down which takes not time and the changes can be heard on the fly from the MLP, then send it back if you don't want options.
 
Alternatively you can plug it in out of the box - not touch the app and it will work just as any other phono pre.

And if you want to use the features, the app is there. And for most of them, once you have it set up how you like you don't need to touch the app again.
"Alternatively you can plug it in out of the box - not touch the app and it will work just as any other phono pre." Actually, that was what I did at first -- but I got a very loud and very nasty sound that made me pick up the needle and turn all the volumes down to near zero. It took me quite a while, going back and forth to find the right levels on everything without blowing out my speakers. And, when I finally did, it sounded worse than any other preamp that I have ever owned. The best way I can describe it, not being an engineer, is that it sounded like there was a lot more emphasis in the mid-bass frequencies that I couldn't get rid of, a lifeless mid-range and muted highs -- all of which I couldn't fix without introducing another problem that I couldn't get rid of. I am not saying that it isn't possible, in the hands of someone with more expertise, to improve this. What I am saying is that, after a day of playing with it, the best I was able to do is get something that was sort of close to what I was hearing from the preamp in the turnable when connected to my Emotiva preamp or using the Emotiva with the built-in preamp. Maybe this would be worth it on a better system or for someone with different tastes (and a different set of ears), but it just wasn't worth it for me.
 
I was sarcastic, that's true.

However, the criticism expressed seems not reasonably to me at all. And the conclusion is ridiculous.

It would have been better to just ignored such a post.
He had his point of opinion, and we have ours. That's all.
Waxwing is outstanding exceptional with regard to the App-based control.
 
No need to be harsh. He has explained, why, and that, he does not need all that 'goodies' of the waxwing.
But You're right, one question remains: why should he have ordered one instead of mor fitting offers??
The reason is that the reviews I have read led me to believe otherwise. But none of them were by people using my ears and I have to work with what I've got.
 
"Alternatively you can plug it in out of the box - not touch the app and it will work just as any other phono pre." Actually, that was what I did at first -- but I got a very loud and very nasty sound that made me pick up the needle and turn all the volumes down to near zero. It took me quite a while, going back and forth to find the right levels on everything without blowing out my speakers. And, when I finally did, it sounded worse than any other preamp that I have ever owned. The best way I can describe it, not being an engineer, is that it sounded like there was a lot more emphasis in the mid-bass frequencies that I couldn't get rid of, a lifeless mid-range and muted highs -- all of which I couldn't fix without introducing another problem that I couldn't get rid of. I am not saying that it isn't possible, in the hands of someone with more expertise, to improve this. What I am saying is that, after a day of playing with it, the best I was able to do is get something that was sort of close to what I was hearing from the preamp in the turnable when connected to my Emotiva preamp or using the Emotiva with the built-in preamp. Maybe this would be worth it on a better system or for someone with different tastes (and a different set of ears), but it just wasn't worth it for me.

Now that is a reason to ditch one, you gave it a hell of a try,
 
The reason is that the reviews I have read led me to believe otherwise. But none of them were by people using my ears and I have to work with what I've got.
Wasn't it arthrosis that hindered ? ?
 
The reason is that the reviews I have read led me to believe otherwise. But none of them were by people using my ears and I have to work with what I've got.
I guess you still need to figure out how to properly configure the waxwing for your specific setup.

You need to choose, at the very least, MM/MC (analog gain, digital gain, input resistance, input capacity). The other settings can be left as-is. The true peak analog input and digital level meters help you optimizing the gain structure.

Recommended additional settings:
- high pass at 20-25 Hz
- low pass at 30 kHz
- You may try derumble (mono bass), magic, warmth. With certain records.

You can "lock" all settings which shall not be used. Then you can "sort" the settings in the app and all locked settings are automatically placed at the bottom of the app. Very convenient.

The app offers even more ("test" section).

A very powerful device with a simple yet powerful app!
 
For the record: he has returned it and will not be able to do any adjustments at all, not?
(Btw. would not return the one I own.... ok, 3K and we're done...).
 
For the record: he has returned it and will not be able to do any adjustments at all, not?
(Btw. would not return the one I own.... ok, 3K and we're done...).
Well, but at least other readers may now be a little bit inspired to give this one a chance
:)
 
Actually, that was what I did at first -- but I got a very loud and very nasty sound that made me pick up the needle and turn all the volumes down to near zero.
I was able to do is get something that was sort of close to what I was hearing from the preamp in the turnable
You weren’t taking the output of the preamp in the turntable and putting it into the Waxwing, were you? Because if you were, the 2x (approx) 40dB gain of the two preamps (the one in the turntable followed by the Waxwing) in series would certainly make a very loud and very nasty sound with everything overloaded and clipping like hell, requiring you to turn down everything to zero.

Once you turned everything down, it would also give you ...
lifeless mid-range and muted highs
Due to applying 2x the RIAA curve, resulting in bass boosted by 20dB too much, and highs turned down by 20dB too much.

Based on your description, I am pretty confident this is what happened.

When you get your replacement phono preamp, make sure you use the low (cartridge) level output of your turntable - and not the one coming from the turntable’s preamp. Or it might be the same connections but with a switch to bypass the preamp. EDIT See my comment below about using a simple RCA to toslink converter - I don't believe you will see any benefit from using a separate phono preamp from the one you have in the turntable.

If you tell us what turntable you have, we'll be able to give specific guidance.



EDIT I've just seen one of your earlier posts - and unless things have changed, you have an audio technica turntable with built in phono preamp, and a switch to bypass it.

Given this - then if all you are looking for is an optical connection to your DAC, then you can do this with a simple RCA to Toslink converter for around £$20, using the built in phono pre in the turntable to feed it. If you go this route, make sure you get an ADC (RCA to Toslink) and not the reverse (DAC to RCA)

EG:

 
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Given this - then if all you are looking for is an optical connection to your DAC, then you can do this with a simple RCA to Toslink converter for around £$20, using the built in phono pre in the turntable to feed it. If you go this route, make sure you get an ADC (RCA to Toslink) and not the reverse (DAC to RCA)
Or spend a little more for a MiniDSP PocketADC if you want one with known-good measured performance.
 
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