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The wait is over: Genelec 8381A point source main monitor has arrived

thecheapseats

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Wall mounting is a way cheaper solution in most studios. In fact, even with concrete walls, you could implement an entire false wall for much cheaper.

So, let’s specifiy correctly. The 8381A may be the cheapest way to solve the actual problem it solves, if you are unwilling to do it the cheapest way. LOL
cheapest way?... for me there's downtime during construction which adds to costs, as well as mitigating any physical change to the architectural/acoustic design of the original control room after the fact...

so hell no - it ain't 'cheaper'... I do this for a living - over forty years I'm now in my second built-for-purpose recording facility of control room w/studio recording space (3000+ sq ft total)...
 

dedobot

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Do they all get a dedicated channel of amplification or is there a passive crossover somewhere
From what I read - dsp/digital crossover to the dedicated amps . There might be passive elemens on the channels with more drivers but who knows..
 

srrxr71

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If I had to guess 3 channels each.

Upper: Tweeter, mid, mid bass
Lower: each driver gets its own amp.

These are not toys and there is no passive anything in there.
 

dedobot

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Maybe we are all wrong, from Genelec' site, 8381 page , section "Key Technologies - active crossover " ':
" Each driver has its own signal processing and power amplifier..."
 

Elitzur–Vaidman

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If I had to guess 3 channels each.

Upper: Tweeter, mid, mid bass
Lower: each driver gets its own amp.

These are not toys and there is no passive anything in there.
The dual opposing drivers on the bottom share a channel. It's Tweeter, coax midrange, front woofer, side woofers, and beamforming midrange x4. Each channel gets independent dsp/digital crossovers, and the opposing woofers are the only things that will be playing 100% identical signals. The 4 midrange drivers will have certain phase changes to enable the steerable directivity.
 

Pearljam5000

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Screenshot_20230519_044441_Chrome.jpg
Screenshot_20230519_044600_Chrome.jpg

This Geithain has 4 tweeters instead of the 4 midranges on Genelec
Is it the same principal or totally different ?
 

srrxr71

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The dual opposing drivers on the bottom share a channel. It's Tweeter, coax midrange, front woofer, side woofers, and beamforming midrange x4. Each channel gets independent dsp/digital crossovers, and the opposing woofers are the only things that will be playing 100% identical signals. The 4 midrange drivers will have certain phase changes to enable the steerable directivity.
I had no idea. So no bass steering tricks on this or maybe the can do it with the upper 15” and the 2 lowers?

Seems like a canceling force design on the lower woofers then

In fact there has not been talk of any bass steering on this and I guess it just has the one pattern of radiation.

EDIT: okay. I read what you wrote but how can they steer down to 60Hz like the w371 can? Unless the 15” pair and front 15” are not part of the steering algorithm. I suspect all of those are invoked.

Maybe the steering operates only down to midbass? I doubt it but then again I don’t know.
 
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srrxr71

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Maybe we are all wrong, from Genelec' site, 8381 page , section "Key Technologies - active crossover " ':
" Each driver has its own signal processing and power amplifier..."
I would tend to believe this more than that they used one channel for both bottom woofers.
 

Elitzur–Vaidman

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I had no idea. So no bass steering tricks on this or maybe the can do it with the upper 15” and the 2 lowers?

Seems like a canceling force design on the lower woofers then

In fact there has not been talk of any bass steering on this and I guess it just has the one pattern of radiation.

EDIT: okay. I read what you wrote but how can they steer down to 60Hz like the w371 can? Unless the 15” pair and front 15” are not part of the steering algorithm. I suspect all of those are invoked.

Maybe the steering operates only down to midbass? I doubt it but then again I don’t know.
I think the active steering might only operate in the midbass. There were example spinoramas in the launch video demonstrating the effect, but I can't find them on my phone atm. I think the front+2 side woofers use dsp to smooth the bass response/minimize nulls (also cardioid?), but I don't think they're capable of actively steering the bass response.
 

JayGilb

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5 way system . 1- both side firing woofers. 2 - front firing woofer . 3 - the 4 mids around horn , 4 - central mid driver, 5 - the tweeter. Bottom and upper sections have separate inputs.
You just described my DIY speakers I built about 5 years ago.

I'm way ahead of the curve. (yea sure) Mine are ugly though, OSB with black textured speaker paint.
 

dedobot

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You just described my DIY speakers I built about 5 years ago.

I'm way ahead of the curve. (yea sure) Mine are ugly though, OSB with black textured speaker paint.
I was wrong :)
8381 is 5 way acoustical, but technically it's 9 channels system . All drivers have separate crossovers and dedicated amps.
 

srrxr71

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I think the active steering might only operate in the midbass. There were example spinoramas in the launch video demonstrating the effect, but I can't find them on my phone atm. I think the front+2 side woofers use dsp to smooth the bass response/minimize nulls (also cardioid?), but I don't think they're capable of actively steering the bass response.
Fair enough as most people with w371 don’t use the steering modes anyway. Why? They rob SPL. So I guess they’ve just removed those as the product t wont hit the SPL spec if those modes are deployed.

Also I found those modes to not be very useful beyond the standard radiation pattern. Which i think even in complementary mode keep a cardioid response due to the diameter of the front woofer. But i’m not sure either.

It just sounds that way to me.
 

Elitzur–Vaidman

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Fair enough as most people with w371 don’t use the steering modes anyway. Why? They rob SPL. So I guess they’ve just removed those as the product t wont hit the SPL spec if those modes are deployed.

Also I found those modes to not be very useful beyond the standard radiation pattern. Which i think even in complementary mode keep a cardioid response due to the diameter of the front woofer. But i’m not sure either.

It just sounds that way to me.
I just want to clarify that I'm speculating a bit based off of the information provided. I just don't see any other rational distribution of the 8 amplification channels.
 

srrxr71

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I just want to clarify that I'm speculating a bit based off of the information provided. I just don't see any other rational distribution of the 8 amplification channels.
So am I. Pretty much all of us here are. We don’t know for sure.

I thought initially it is 3 + 3 channel. That is my guess. Let’s see who is right. We will find out by September I guess.
 

Fredygump

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I've got mixed feelings about this speaker! Approx 1 year ago I got inspired to build something like the W371A. Along the way I realized it would be negligent to NOT make it full range...so I added a coaxial driver. I've been listening to prototype cabinets for months, and in the last couple weeks have began making the final push to get the final cabinets designed and built. Then Genelec drops this...

I thought I was innovating on the idea of the W371A, but now Genelec kinda pulled the rug out from under me. So that's kind of a bummer. But on the other hand, a few days ago I was making a shoddy version of a $30k system...now I'm making a shoddy version of a $70k system!
 

srrxr71

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I've got mixed feelings about this speaker! Approx 1 year ago I got inspired to build something like the W371A. Along the way I realized it would be negligent to NOT make it full range...so I added a coaxial driver. I've been listening to prototype cabinets for months, and in the last couple weeks have began making the final push to get the final cabinets designed and built. Then Genelec drops this...

I thought I was innovating on the idea of the W371A, but now Genelec kinda pulled the rug out from under me. So that's kind of a bummer. But on the other hand, a few days ago I was making a shoddy version of a $30k system...now I'm making a shoddy version of a $70k system!
Please elaborate
 

Axo1989

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Please elaborate

I don't know if @Fredygump is thinking the same thing, but I'd just assumed the side woofers were doing cardiod. It is puzzling/disappointing (your comments on SPL notwithstanding) if they are just there for cardio. :)
 

Fredygump

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I think the active steering might only operate in the midbass. There were example spinoramas in the launch video demonstrating the effect, but I can't find them on my phone atm. I think the front+2 side woofers use dsp to smooth the bass response/minimize nulls (also cardioid?), but I don't think they're capable of actively steering the bass response.

I'm pretty confident that Genelec's "Adaptive" system is just their version of multiple subwoofers to correct room modes. The clever part is that all 4 subwoofers are in the same spot. I expect the 2 side woofers are a dipole sub that reaches down to 20hz, and the front facing woofer rolls off at around 45hz. I am expecting the dipole sub to play from 20hz to ~100hz, and the front sub is 45hz to 150hz.

I am building what started out as a W371A clone...which now it looks a lot like a 8381A clone... I experimented with creating low frequency directivity, but I didn't measure anything that even hinted that directivity could produce a benefit in a small room, for midfield listening. I'm not an expert at anything speaker related, but I put a lot of time into research and trying to make it work. The only hint of a positive result was when tried to simulate sittig at a desk in the near field, like 1m/ 3ft away. But I didn't pursue it, since that isn't my use case.

What I have found to work to create flat low frequency response, with speakers in the arrangement we see in Genelec's speakers, is to use delays...but I think that is taboo to say? What I do is use REW's time alignment tool. For audiophile acceptance factor, I should probably be more careful and just say I time align the 4 subwoofer channels? I'm not an audio professional, but I've dabbled just enough that I always find myself on the pro audio side of the fence...and this project is borrowing a lot from pro audio, the subwoofer integration, signal processing, etc.

Genelec seems quite cagey about how the system accounts for room modes. They don't say how it works, but they say that it does correct room modes. And to my knowledge you can either use delays or EQ to do this. I've used only delays (i.e. no EQ adjustment) and gotten good results, like +-4db from 20hz to 100hz throughout my room. If I had a fixed listening position that needed to be perfect, I could do some EQ adjustment to get it perfect. But my goal is to make it sound good everywhere.

If this is multiple subwoofers, why are they using 2 different types of subwoofer designs? The dipole might go down to 20hz, but the front driver is in a sealed enclosure, so it almost certainly does not extend that low. What's the deal?

From my experience, when I use the "time alignment" method with 4 subwoofers that all play down to 30hz and below, I always got a nasty peak from 30hz to 40hz. I had to make a -6db notch filter on all 4 subwoofers to control it. But when I roll off 2 of the subs around 45hz, that peak disappears completely. (And the sealed front facing subwoofer Genelec is using will naturally roll off around 50hz.) And having only 2 subs covering 20-45hz is completely fine. I don't even need to add a low shelf to compensate! I don't have to adjust gain differently for each of the 4 subwoofers. Somehow it just works.

But anyway, I'm not saying this is what Genelec is doing. I'm just saying it's what I'm doing, and my speaker has a very similar driver arrangement to what Genelec has.
 

srrxr71

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I don't know if @Fredygump is thinking the same thing, but I'd just assumed the side woofers were doing cardiod. It is puzzling/disappointing (your comments on SPL notwithstanding) if they are just there for cardio. :)
But why not? There is enough deep bass capability. It’s the midbass and higher that was the limitation. That’s why that was what was really worked on.
 

Fredygump

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I don't know if @Fredygump is thinking the same thing, but I'd just assumed the side woofers were doing cardiod. It is puzzling/disappointing (your comments on SPL notwithstanding) if they are just there for cardio. :)
I'm sure that is just a dipole sub. It's a change from the ported sub on the W371A, so that's interesting. Probably the best way to hit 20hz at 120+dB without a stupidly big cabinet?
 
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