The VSX-LX505 or TX-RZ50

[andrewskaterrr]

Quick question on this. I am currently using a MiniDSP to time align/EQ a 2 sub setup. I currently use an Onkyo RZ810 with external amplification, so I’m limited to AccuEq for room correction, which I’m sure everyone here knows is not the best.

Anyways, I’ve done my best to EQ the subs on my own using REW, but haven’t gotten into MSO or anything like that. I’ve really thought about getting a DDRC 88a so can apply Dirac 3.0 to all my speakers, but not sure if I’m ready to make the ~$1,200 investment yet (or if I might be better served just getting an HDMI 2.1 compliant processor with Dirac built in later on). I must admit though, experimenting with Dirac on the bass management side with my subs and my MiniDSP 2xhd sounds intriguing…

If I went that route, I would be able to have Dirac just EQ my subs, correct? Would it have further benefits from the basic EQing I’ve done myself just using REW? Keep in mind, I’m new to EQing with the MiniDSP - I’ve been able to get a pretty flat response, but I’m not fully confident that I’m doing so with creating additional problems for other seats, over processing, etc. Also not convinced I have my subs perfectly aligned with my main speakers.

Are these things that Dirac could potentially go for me if I upgraded my MiniDSP 2x4hd, even if my other speakers won’t be Dirac corrected?

I'm actually somewhat new to it myself. I just got a JBL SDP-55 Processor with full Dirac. I haven't even ran it yet, but my dealer was suggesting to just keep using the mini for all 4 since we can EQ that way, but I also only have 3 channels available. Personally, I'd talk to a dealer about a B-stock Arcam AV40 or JBL SDP-55. They're cheaper than you think, and you could hook your subs right up to it, and deal with all your speakers too. Getting better DACs in the process too. Just a thought. If you want to talk to a dealer just let me know. Otherwise I'd keep using REW.

Side note, are you going for flat or the Harman Curve? You want a boost in the bass.

 

[valerianf]

I may have found a point that will make me chose the RZ50: the THX music mode.
Has somebody tested it?

 

[Flatlander]

I may have found a point that will make me chose the RZ50: the THX music mode.
Has somebody tested it?

I tested it on my Onkyo TX-NR717. All those "modes" just misrepresent the creator's intent. IMO, there is no need to use them.

 

[Rottmannash]

I may have found a point that will make me chose the RZ50: the THX music mode.
Has somebody tested it?

Actually that is the only mode I use if I want to convert 2 channel to multichannel but I agree, it's not accurate but is the most unoffensive of them all. I have the TX RZ810. Same modes.

 

[ronnzi]

I'm actually somewhat new to it myself. I just got a JBL SDP-55 Processor with full Dirac. I haven't even ran it yet, but my dealer was suggesting to just keep using the mini for all 4 since we can EQ that way, but I also only have 3 channels available. Personally, I'd talk to a dealer about a B-stock Arcam AV40 or JBL SDP-55. They're cheaper than you think, and you could hook your subs right up to it, and deal with all your speakers too. Getting better DACs in the process too. Just a thought. If you want to talk to a dealer just let me know. Otherwise I'd keep using REW.

Side note, are you going for flat or the Harman Curve? You want a boost in the bass.

Yeah, getting something like the Arcam AV40 would probably be best. I already dropped a lot on my system recently, so I was trying to hold off on spending too much more right now - mostly investigating options for the future, unless of course something cheap enough comes along that makes me rethink that strategy. If you have any recommendations, feel free to shoot me a DM.

As for what I’m aiming for, right now I am more or less trying for a Harman curve. My mains already roll off at the upper frequencies without DSP, but the center seems to not do so as much, so for now I’m using the graphic equaliser in the Onkyo RZ-810 to push the upper frequencies down a bit (plus taking care of a bump around 1.5k). As far as my subs, my latest curve is more aggressive than I intended - i tried for about a 4db boost, but after finishing everything and rerunning Onkyo’s AccuEq room correction, at the lowest frequencies its around 7-10db hot, which is just way too much. But the system is starting to sound pretty good.

Figure having something like Dirac even just for the subs would making it much easier for me to expieriment with the sub curve without having to retweak for hours every time, but I also don’t want to burn $200.00 for no reason on an upgrade of my MiniDSP 2x4hd if it’s not going to really help much, considering within a year I’ll probably be finding a way to use Dirac for everything (ddrc 88a or a complete processor replacement).

Has anyone here just used dirac on their subs? Without running the rest of their speakers through it? Just curious how this would end up working.

 

[ronnzi]

Actually that is the only mode I use if I want to convert 2 channel to multichannel but I agree, it's not accurate but is the most unoffensive of them all. I have the TX RZ810. Same modes.

I have the same experience. I use the THX Music mode on my RZ-810 (obviously without Dirac) a decent amount. It doesn’t sound overly distorted or anything, but it focuses a lot more of the music through the center speaker than I would prefer. I would love to be able to get mostly vocals through the center with more of the rest of the music coming from the mains, but it is what it is. I haven’t had other AVRs to compare it too, but it’s certainly not bad. But also not a killer feature IMO.

 

[valerianf]

"but it focuses a lot more of the music through the center speaker"

For now, with a Yamaha I am using Dolby Pro Logic II and adjusting the center width I am able to send more music to my tower speakers L and R.
I would like to do something similar with the RZ50 when I will got one.
Is there a center width adjustment on the RZ50?

 

[ronnzi]

"but it focuses a lot more of the music through the center speaker"

For now, with a Yamaha I am using Dolby Pro Logic II and adjusting the center width I am able to send more music to my tower speakers L and R.
I would like to do something similar with the RZ50 when I will got one.
Is there a center width adjustment on the RZ50?

There is, I believe, but it’s in a quick menu only. I’ll check out the settings later to see, but there are definitely some options there to widen it a bit a believe.

 

[ronnzi]

"but it focuses a lot more of the music through the center speaker"

For now, with a Yamaha I am using Dolby Pro Logic II and adjusting the center width I am able to send more music to my tower speakers L and R.
I would like to do something similar with the RZ50 when I will got one.
Is there a center width adjustment on the RZ50?

So I just checked… Closest thing I could find was under the quick menu like I was thinking, but it doesn’t give you granular control. It’s simply the “C Spread” (or center spread) option on/off that should widen the front sound stage.

I remember now why I left it off - it seems like it’s just playing from all 3 front channels when I have it on. Not what I was looking for really. Hearing about the options you have with your Yamaha using Dolby Pro Logic II, I’m wondering if that’s better… With the Onkyo, the only option even with Pro Logic II/Dolby Surround is also C Spread on/off.

On my Onkyo, fwiw, I do still like the THX Music mode better than Dolby Surround when upmixing stereo music sources. But it would be nice to have some control on what it’s doing.

 

[valerianf]

Thank you Ronnzi.
My main example is when the source is a 2 channel stereo signal that needs to be up-mixed in 5.1
As there is no adjustment for Center Spread I may use the THX Music.
Are all the 5.1 channels driven in THX Music mode?

 

[ronnzi]

Yep, as far as I’m aware all speakers in THX Music mode - my system is also 5.1 (technically 5.2, but the AVR sees the two subs as one).

 

[Dougey_Jones]

I've been on the fence for a while between just getting a Denon x3700 or waiting for something with Dirac. Just pulled the trigger on the Onkyo TX-RZ50 based on the user impressions here and on other forums. Maybe Audyssey X will end up being as good or better than Dirac, but Dirac is still demonstrably better than Audyssey XT32 even with the phone app. Will be using the Onkyo's amps for rear channels only, front channels will be my pair of rebuilt PS-Audio Trio A-100's.

Will report back with impressions when it's all set up.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Does anybody happen to know the output impedance of the RZ50's RCA outputs?

 

[andrewskaterrr]

My guess is it would follow the Subwoofer spec?

 

[Dougey_Jones]

View attachment 172651My guess is it would follow the Subwoofer spec?

Think that will represent a problem with my PS-Audio A-100, which is 50k input impedance?

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Ok, so I guess it is in the manual, can anybody help me understand whether this will or will not work well with my amps that have a 50k input impedance?

 

[AllanMarcus]

I've been on the fence for a while between just getting a Denon x3700 or waiting for something with Dirac. Just pulled the trigger on the Onkyo TX-RZ50 based on the user impressions here and on other forums. Maybe Audyssey X will end up being as good or better than Dirac, but Dirac is still demonstrably better than Audyssey XT32 even with the phone app. Will be using the Onkyo's amps for rear channels only, front channels will be my pair of rebuilt PS-Audio Trio A-100's.

Will report back with impressions when it's all set up.

cool! did you find any reviews of the TX-RZ50 other than from users on sites that sell it? Any reliable reviews yet?

 

[andrewskaterrr]

Ok, so I guess it is in the manual, can anybody help me understand whether this will or will not work well with my amps that have a 50k input impedance? View attachment 172662

Personally I don’t pay much attention to that spec. Around 47k is normal to my knowledge. The 1V is more of a worry to me. I can’t find the Input Sensitivity of the A-100. 1V is pretty low

 

[dlaloum]

I asked Onkyo about pre-out max V - they responded that 2V was max... So there is some headroom.

The reality on the ground, we will only know when someone tests it in the real world.

 

[Rottmannash]

"but it focuses a lot more of the music through the center speaker"

For now, with a Yamaha I am using Dolby Pro Logic II and adjusting the center width I am able to send more music to my tower speakers L and R.
I would like to do something similar with the RZ50 when I will got one.
Is there a center width adjustment on the RZ50?

Don't think so. Don't believe any Onkyo AVR's have that function. Edit-at least the 3 I've owned did not.