The video business is slowly dying

[Chrispy]

Maybe. OTOH, this was similar when UHD / "4k" was new. 10 years later, it dominated the market. We will see...
8k doesn't seem to make sense with streaming data rates, but people might buy anyway.

Could be. Seems we've had a lot of time so far and it hasn't expanded. 8k for bandwidth and any advantage gained, meh.

 

[delta76]

Sony’s first few years of OLED TVs utilized panels made by LG—in fact, identical to the panels LG was using in its own TVs. I recall that at some point, Sony began producing OLED panels. I don’t think that Samsung ever manufactured OLED panels. They were developing micro LED technology (“QLED”) instead.

QLED (Q for Quantum) is not Micro LED. It is closer to MiniLED than MicroLED.
MicroLED is still quite far away and will be pretty expensive, while OLED is making strides in brightness which is its main weakness (other is burnin which is large resolved)

 

[JSmith]

I don't know how to feel about this... initial reaction is, oh no, Sony AV is dead.

Sony have the very best image processing and produce some of the best TV's available. They may share panels with others, like most do, but it's how the panel is driven often that makes the difference.

Is Sony just going to become a dumbed down rebadged TCL... or will TCL's improve their game with the Sony knowledge?

Currently TCL make cheap TV's for the masses... that are really not very good.


JSmith

 

[delta76]

I don't know how to feel about this... initial reaction is, oh no, Sony AV is dead.

Sony have the very best image processing and produce some of the best TV's available. They may share panels with others, like most do, but it's how the panel is driven often that makes the difference.

Is Sony just going to become a dumbed down rebadged TCL... or will TCL's improve their game with the Sony knowledge?

Currently TCL make cheap TV's for the masses... that are really not very good.


JSmith

TCL leds, at least their high end series, are among the best in the market. QM8k in US/C8k in EU.
A friend wanted to buy a new tv for a long time, and he always wanted an oled. One day I told him about C8K which he bought 85" for 2100 €. Very happy with it.
Sony is exiting the tv market because they could not compete with the competitors, theirs are more expensive but not better in any meaningful way.
The first TV i bought was a Sony. And that was the only one

 

[Chester]

My own anecdotal evidence is that much like younger generations are more than content streaming lossless music into AirPods, they are also not really interested in 1080 vs 4K vs 8k, in the main. Obviously there’s always some exceptions but maybe not enough to sustain a healthy market.

I guess for a lot of us, we remember what it was like before HD and digital audio, so the jump in resolution and fidelity is still significant to us. If you’ve only ever experienced excellent quality sound and video, you probably wouldn’t care about small incremental improvements.

 

[delta76]

My own anecdotal evidence is that much like younger generations are more than content streaming lossless music into AirPods, they are also not really interested in 1080 vs 4K vs 8k, in the main. Obviously there’s always some exceptions but maybe not enough to sustain a healthy market.

I guess for a lot of us, we remember what it was like before HD and digital audio, so the jump in resolution and fidelity is still significant to us. If you’ve only ever experienced excellent quality sound and video, you probably wouldn’t care about small incremental improvements.

That is likely true, everyone is into smartphone now and less time on TV. 10 -15 years ago TV is the default appliance in your home. Now everyone except some seniors glues their eyes on their phones.

Ironically i am writing this on my phone walking to my office

 

[Billy Budapest]

QLED (Q for Quantum) is not Micro LED. It is closer to MiniLED than MicroLED.
MicroLED is still quite far away and will be pretty expensive, while OLED is making strides in brightness which is its main weakness (other is burnin which is large resolved)

Got it—I confused MiniLED with MicroLED.

 

[Billy Budapest]

it's TV business. TV <> Video business

Sad to read the news. Growing up in an Asian countries, Sony was the golden standard for TV

In the U.S., too, ever since Sony invented and patented the Trinitron picture tube.

 

[Oddball]

I thought Sony's TVs had been built around displays from a Samsung-Sony joint company for years.

My impression is that the PRC government is currently doing what the Japanese government once did: Subsidize sectors of the economy to promote a crazy level of development and intense domestic competition, such that the surviving manufacturers are really, really, good. Enjoy the windfall while it lasts, PRC taxpayers are subsidizing it! Someday, perhaps we'll speak fondly of the good ole days of Made-in-PRC, and brands like Hisense and Haier.

Where did you get that from? What TCL is doing is just business and leveraging its vertically integrated position that is worth probably trillions if floated on Las Vegas style exchange like NASDAQ.

 

[Oddball]

Over the years more and more brands are selling off or shutting down their video business, from beloved Oppo Digital, to Toshiba, JVC, Sharp, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, so on and so forth.

Now Sony. This is a very competitive market. Hisense and TCL now are dominating the market due to consumer price sensitivity. I'm afraid that Samsung and LG may be next on the chopping block.

https://www.tomsguide.com/tvs/sony-just-handed-its-tv-business-to-tcl-heres-what-it-means-for-you

Honestly to early to tell what is the Sony TCL deal, if it ever happens. What rights will TCL have vs what rights will Sony have is too early to tell. So speculation is just what it is. You, or nobody else has an idea what could be the agreement, if any, that they reach in March.

Just for the people that might be less acquainted with the process, MOU is a non binding document that announces the intent of the parties early on in the M&A process. Some MOUs come to life, some don't.

 

[delta76]

Honestly to early to tell what is the Sony TCL deal, if it ever happens. What rights will TCL have vs what rights will Sony have is too early to tell. So speculation is just what it is. You, or nobody else has an idea what could be the agreement, if any, that they reach in March.

Just for the people that might be less acquainted with the process, MOU is a non binding document that announces the intent of the parties early on in the M&A process. Some MOUs come to life, some don't.

But it also does not mean Sony is doing well in TV business. Rather badly. Samsung is leading but TCL and Hisense are expanding rapidly. LG has OLED stronghold (and I can't understand their stubbornness to stick with IPS while other already went with VA for LCD). Sony is losing in both fronts, premium and mass market. Their decision is quite inevitable.

 

[Oddball]

But it also does not mean Sony is doing well in TV business. Rather badly. Samsung is leading but TCL and Hisense are expanding rapidly. LG has OLED stronghold (and I can't understand their stubbornness to stick with IPS while other already went with VA for LCD). Sony is losing in both fronts, premium and mass market. Their decision is quite inevitable.

Sony is doing as well as they can. They probably realize that with the changing landscape they need to do different things and TCL might be the right partner for that.

For example, they have been working on new RBG LED for 2 years or so, only to be proven it can't compete in real life with the traditional tech that TCL is pushing this year, albeit some notable improvements. The panel was TCL for sure, but the bet was Sony. TCL has multiple bets and than decides which one has a long hand.

We all want Sony processing, but not at the price Sony requests, especially being two steps behind the hardware game, and just trying to hit the reviewing marks to win the game. This will work out well for the consumers in the long run unless TCL gets greedy.

 

[JeffS7444]

Where did you get that from? What TCL is doing is just business and leveraging its vertically integrated position that is worth probably trillions if floated on Las Vegas style exchange like NASDAQ.

Thomas Friedman, starting at ~10:20 as he likens competing in the Chinese domestic market to working out in a fitness club.

 

[delta76]

Sony is doing as well as they can. They probably realize that with the changing landscape they need to do different things and TCL might be the right partner for that.

For example, they have been working on new RBG LED for 2 years or so, only to be proven it can't compete in real life with the traditional tech that TCL is pushing this year, albeit some notable improvements. The panel was TCL for sure, but the bet was Sony. TCL has multiple bets and than decides which one has a long hand.

We all want Sony processing, but not at the price Sony requests, especially being two steps behind the hardware game, and just trying to hit the reviewing marks to win the game. This will work out well for the consumers in the long run unless TCL gets greedy.

No they are not doing well, their market share has been shrinking over years. https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1709630956

I have not been in market for a new tv for quite sometimes, but I keep watching OLED. Sony offering has been quite bad. Their strength was in video processing but that was caught by LG and SS, they were lagging behind in video game responsive and get destroyed in brightness. It should still sell quite well if their price is not significantly higher. With LG and SS do aggressive sales on their midrange offering quite often only a handful of loyal fans would buy Sony.
As I said earlier their shrinking business means their exit is inevitable. Could be a smart move to keep a sustainable and maybe profitable branding.

 

[Axo1989]

Honestly to early to tell what is the Sony TCL deal, if it ever happens. What rights will TCL have vs what rights will Sony have is too early to tell. So speculation is just what it is. You, or nobody else has an idea what could be the agreement, if any, that they reach in March.

Just for the people that might be less acquainted with the process, MOU is a non binding document that announces the intent of the parties early on in the M&A process. Some MOUs come to life, some don't.

Yes, and the Tom’s Hardware article describes a 51/49 joint venture. I’m not interested enough at the moment to read more widely, but speculative assertions in this thread do seem a bit odd.

 

[TurtlePaul]

Maybe. OTOH, this was similar when UHD / "4k" was new. 10 years later, it dominated the market. We will see...
8k doesn't seem to make sense with streaming data rates, but people might buy anyway.

8k also hardly makes sense given typical screen sizes and viewing distances. 4K requires pretty large TVs to make sense at 8 ft viewing distances. Even for people with quite good eyesight, 8 million pixels is a lot.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-size/size-to-distance-relationship

 

[JSmith]

I thought Sony's TVs had been built around displays from a Samsung-Sony joint company for years.

The did, but no longer... you're thinking of the S-LCD Corporation owned by Samsung and Sony, created in 2004, to produce S-PVA panels. Sony exited the joint venture in 2011 and sold the balance to Samsung. In 2022 Samsung got out as well, selling it to CSOT (a TCL subsidiary).

WOLED wise, all buy the panels from LG. Samsung QD-OLED's though are fully produced by Samsung.


JSmith

 

[Chrispy]

I don't know how to feel about this... initial reaction is, oh no, Sony AV is dead.

Sony have the very best image processing and produce some of the best TV's available. They may share panels with others, like most do, but it's how the panel is driven often that makes the difference.

Is Sony just going to become a dumbed down rebadged TCL... or will TCL's improve their game with the Sony knowledge?

Currently TCL make cheap TV's for the masses... that are really not very good.


JSmith

I think of it more as Sony has capitulated, they don't find it worthwhile for company goals. Lots of their hardware has gone this route already. Better business decision for them? TCL otoh has come a long ways....

 

[Palladium]

Well, videophiles as a segment of TV buyers are tiny, just like in the audio world.

Hell I'm one of them and I'm not interested in any TVs again after my LG C2. Either these TVs have UI that are a pain to navigate with the remote, have very limited app library and very ad-ridden for non-paying content when not hooked to a dedicated PC running adblockers.

If I'm gonna use a PC for it I might just watch directly on my 27" also OLED desktop PC setup.

 

[Chrispy]

Well, videophiles as a segment of TV buyers are tiny, just like in the audio world.

Hell I'm one of them and I'm not interested in any TVs again after my LG C2. Either these TVs have UI that are a pain to navigate with the remote, have very limited app library and very ad-ridden for non-paying content when not hooked to a dedicated PC running adblockers.

If I'm gonna use a PC for it I might just watch directly on my 27" also OLED desktop PC setup.

I don't consider myself a videophile, but do like my plasma sets (and have not converted to 4k in any case). I just use a tv as a display, tho.