The US electrical system is not 120V

[McFly]

Not if you have an old school electric clock. That 60 hz is what kept it accurate. Now days with the 60 hz being very tightly controlled those old clocks keep better time than ever.

Mind blown.

 

[Trouble Maker]

So, funny thing about the power grid in Japan, half of it is 50hz and the other half is 60hz. They have a frequency conversion stations on the split to connect the grids.

Our coffee grinder was not happy about 100v@50hz when it was designed around 120v@60hz.
The few other electrical items we brought over have 'world' power supplies in them or feeding them that can handle 100V~240V at 50hz/60hz.

 

[mansr]

Not if you have an old school electric clock. That 60 hz is what kept it accurate. Now days with the 60 hz being very tightly controlled those old clocks keep better time than ever.

Electric clocks run just fine with 50 Hz too. You just need a different gear ratio in the mechanism.

 

[Timbo2]

Even at 'just' 10kW charge rate, you could charge the largest of all of the EV vehicles that exist battery overnight. At the 40amp charge rate, you are right around there. How is it living with that charging rate at home? That's driving 200miles+today, charging overnight, then doing it again the next day. At that rate even if you only did it 5 days/week you would rack up 52kmiles in 1 year. I don't really see the point of needing to charge much faster than that. Especially since most people right now have more than just EVs at home. Long term I don't think the viability of EVs hinges on any faster at home charging, but on more availability of faster charging structure at work, shopping, rest-stops, etc.

I have a short commute and no issues with the 40A rate. I think that's why Tesla figured 48A is fine. However, and a big however, in cold climates range drastically decreases AND you need to heat the batteries to charge. So on a 20F day I can pump initially 8kW of just heat into the batteries to be able to charge them.

 

[kokishin]

So, funny thing about the power grid in Japan, half of it is 50hz and the other half is 60hz. They have a frequency conversion stations on the split to connect the grids.

View attachment 70466

Our coffee grinder was not happy about 100v@50hz when it was designed around 120v@60hz.
The few other electrical items we brought over have 'world' power supplies in them or feeding them that can handle 100V~240V at 50hz/60hz.

Thank you for posting this. I lived in Tokyo for ~6 years. I never knew there were frequency conversion stations until you posted. I always thought Japan's 50Hz and 60Hz grids were completely isolated from each other.

 

[mansr]

Thank you for posting this. I lived in Tokyo for ~6 years. I never knew there were frequency conversion stations until you posted. I always thought Japan's 50Hz and 60Hz grids were completely isolated from each other.

The probably were originally. I can't fathom why someone would intentionally design a grid like that.

 

[A800]

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2011/07/19/reference/japans-incompatible-power-grids/

 

[maverickronin]

The probably were originally. I can't fathom why someone would intentionally design a grid like that.

IIRC it was because one half of the country bought their generators from the US and the other half bought them from Germany and they had to kludged together into one system later.

 

[Trouble Maker]

We were at a bar last night. We live in a little more off the beaten path (not Tokyo) town, and sometimes go to a bit off the beaten path restaurants. And it's a little more rare to see people clearly from overseas right now since all travel is shut down. We can be a bit of an 'attraction' for some Japanese people, they like to talk to us to get our story. So one of the guys in this group starts talking to us. At least half of them spoke at least better English than my Japanese. One of the guys is gong on-and-on talking to us about feudal VS modern Japan, according to him was rooted respectively in the north and west. Apparently there was a civil war about 100 years ago, which I had no idea it was that recent. I guess it makes sense since if I recall correctly that was around the time Japan 'opened' it's borders. But, this guy was breaking all of the drinking rules about politically and cultural discussion. He kept pointing to two guys that were from those different areas and talking about them fighting, still not liking each other, just using as stereotypes or proxies for some image he has of history and people from those two areas. One of his friends at some point tried to get him to stop under the guise that he was bothering us (a little, but it was really OK), but I think mostly they were a bit embarrassed and wanting to wind him down. At some point he said the guy from the west, 'a prefecture where many of the modern prime ministers come from', 'this guy is friends with (prime minister) Abe'. I assume he's just joking, just implying that they are 'friends' because they come from the same area and clearly must think the same politically because of something 100 years ago and stereotypes of people from the different regions of Japan. Then later the guy pulls out a picture of him and 3 other people, one of them Abe. Honestly I didn't look at the picture closely enough to confirm it was him, at this point I was just casually engaging. Anyway, it made me wonder if the split in the electrical system happened along a similar line; North and West.

This town is known for Jazz and cocktail bars (and Gyoza). So, we are trying to go to many of the 'better' cocktail bars. This is the one we were at, I'm really glad those guys came in, because they asked the bartender to do his show. We were just there for good drinks and we go to see his award winning 'flair' show too! He told us he opened the place 15 years ago, and used to practice 2-3 hours per day, or the whole day if it was raining, for the first few years. Now he says he practices a little (5 minutes) each day to keep his skill up, but has more recently focused on cocktail making skill and competitions.

 

[Timbo2]

Japan's incompatible power grids

To get back to your question, Japan’s bifurcated power system is a holdover from the 19th century, when early power ventures were small in scale and highly localized. In Tokyo, entrepreneurs who were already providing electric lighting in a limited area, using direct current, decided to expand their business by importing high-voltage alternating-current generators from Germany. The German equipment, purchased from the company that became AEG, worked on a frequency of 50 Hz. Meanwhile, the local power providers in Osaka brought in 60 Hz generators from the United States, supplied by the predecessor of General Electric Company. Surely no one was thinking about compatibility: Who then could have imagined that electric systems some 500 km apart might ever connect?

But the grids grew, with 60-Hz power generation emanating from Osaka and 50 Hz electricity spreading out from Tokyo, until eventually the entire country was wired. The frequency frontier is delineated by the Fujigawa River in Shizuoka Prefecture and the southern prefectural border of Niigata. All electricity east of the rivers is 50 Hz, while that to the west is 60 Hz.

Keep in mind that Okinawa didn't become part of the Empire until 1879. - History of the Ryukyu Islands. And like most of these stories through history it wasn't done willingly. And since this isn't the thread or venue for these kinds of discussions I'll leave it at that.

 

[MZKM]

Not if you have an old school electric clock. That 60 hz is what kept it accurate. Now days with the 60 hz being very tightly controlled those old clocks keep better time than ever.

Not sure if the “issue” is still occurring.

 

[Trouble Maker]

But the grids grew, with 60-Hz power generation emanating from Osaka and 50 Hz electricity spreading out from Tokyo, until eventually the entire country was wired. The frequency frontier is delineated by the Fujigawa River in Shizuoka Prefecture and the southern prefectural border of Niigata. All electricity east of the rivers is 50 Hz, while that to the west is 60 Hz.

Another interesting thing I've noticed is that there are a ton of natural features to split up the imaginary political structures by here. We've done a lot more hiking during the COVID 'shutdown'. Naturally there might be a trail that winds up a hill follows a ridgeline to some peak, then back down a bit, rinse-wash-repeat. We had noticed many markers on the trails, but not paid much attention to them. Another American friend on a hike asked one of our Japanese friends. He said the small concrete marker said this city on this side and the other on the other side. Then we started often noticing them all along the ridglines. It's an interesting difference to the US where some borders are defined by rivers or mountains, but more often by a straight line between two points.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Electric clocks run just fine with 50 Hz too. You just need a different gear ratio in the mechanism.

Don't confuse me with facts. 60 seconds in a minute, 60 cycles in a second, it all works out very even. 60 seconds in a minute, and 50 cycles in a second doesn't have the sense of soothing symmetry about it. Besides those 50 hz transformers have to be a bit larger.

 

[A800]

Although 50 Hz transformers have to be a bit larger, 60 Hz transformers require more expensive plates to prevent eddy current losses.