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The Truth About Vinyl Records

atmasphere

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Why not make the cutting amplifier say, only 25% (if that much) more powerful than the cutter head can withstand? Why 10X?
I think, in addition to unlimited headroom in the electronics and keeping distortion down, that there was a concern about reliability.

The Westerex 1700 mastering amplifiers were insanely advanced for their time (1969) using all-silicon with a differential input, direct-coupled throughout, employing a Darlington output stage. They were also quite unstable. You had to be careful with the bias on them and it was not a good idea to heat them up. 4 of them were rack-mounted together in little Euro-rack-like modules, each with its own heatsink. I held my breath every time I turned them on.

If you wanted to make a serious advance in that system, installing 4 class D modules in the same space would be a nice move- lower distortion, far more reliable. I had thoughts of doing that before I sold my system.
 

deweydm

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I think there are 2 separate elements there:

1. RITUAL. Dealing with vinyl is a more involved ritual, zero doubt about that. Whether you love it or hate it is not the point.

2. SQ: There also is zero doubt about the fact that by any measurable benchmark, digital slaughters vinyl.

Sure, source mastering aside. But it matters which mastering is available on what. Garbage in, garbage out. There’s too often still a problem with the versions available on streaming. Comparing Candy-O on CD I recently bought used with Candy-O on Apple Music, using the same DAC, and the latter sounds grotesque. Are there measurable differences that likely explain my subjective preference for the older digital version on CD from the eighties? Pretty sure the AM version is the 2017 Rhino remaster, so yes, I think there are.

Have this on LP too, and it sounds nearly identical to the older CD. Do I need the LP now that I have this CD version? No, I do not. Did I need it to listen to a version that wasn’t trash before I got the CD? Yes, yes I did. Did it have f*#k all to do with ritual? No, it did not.

We can pretend the “loudness wars“ are ending, but the crap version on AM here is an Apple Digital Master, so not a great sign of that. Sometimes, some of us are using LPs as a work around to that, and there is no superior digital version available. Or I dunno, maybe I need a better streaming service. <shrug>
 

egellings

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Just a thought.

In trying to interest young people in the dying hobby of Hi-fi, I was thinking to myself for the sake of sound fidelity would I recommend digital formats, because they are relatively inexpensive, the gamut of music is endless, the equipment is already at hand considering the capabilities of a mobile phone.

Or.....(and I do not have a skerrick of proof for this) but I would assume that a lot of youngens' have inherited their parents' turntables, and probaly their record collections. Thinking back to that period when I was young I don't remember a lot of friend's parents having particularly good turntables or even stereo gear full stop, so I wonder what they are playing their vinyl on?

I wouldn't want to get all audiophile on them, not at all, but I think in terms of cost/price, fidelity, music availability, ease of use, device quality etc I'd recommend digital being the way to go.
Mobility influences younger listener preference. They don't want to be forced to sit between a pair of large speakers to listen to their music; it needs to be on the go.
 

MattHooper

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Interesting discussion, though I'm afraid we're veering off-topic here. :'D
Heh. As a bit of a philosophy nerd, it's an area of interest :)


I feel the causality sequence you describe is too simple to explain rationality. It's great that you used beer as an example, so lets stick with it for a moment:
You say: I desire a beer and believe that a beer is available in a location, then moving my bum to said location is rational behavior.
While that may true for the action taken, I'd go a step further back and analyze the desire:

I desire beer. A beverage that (usually) contains alcohol, which is toxic and addictive. Now I may like the taste, bubbliness, whatever of the beverage but willingly desiring to poison my body is as illogical and irrational as it gets. Wouldn't a rational decision be to NOT get the beer and subsequently NOT harming my body/further risk an alcohol addiction? Am I truly acting in a rational manner when I let emotions guide me (in this case, the desire for the beverage)?

The account of rationality I gave doesn't ignore that we have competing desires. I may desire to eat a yummy doughnut in front of me, yet also know that I am overweight and pre-diabetic and I also desire to lose weight and control my diet. If I survey my competing desires, I'll find my desire to be healthy is stronger and/or attached to a wider range of desires that will be fulfilled by becoming more healthy, and so the balance of desires/reason may tip in favor of not eating the doughnut.

But there are always variables and differing priorities to weigh, based on personal proclivities and values. I don't go mountain climbing because it holds no interest or value to me, so it's not worth the risk. But climbing mountains may satisfy someone else's deepest desires and so on their balance, it becomes worth the risk. Everything we do carries some risk, even going to the store, so we just look at what we personally value to make our decisions. If someone is "take it or leave it" about drinking beer, maybe drinking beer on weekends wouldn't make sense. But if someone finds a great amount of pleasure in doing so, then that can tip the scales to "worth the risk" just as someone else may choose to go skiing on weekends. (And likely occasional drinking isn't very risky in the first place).

So, as always, what is "rational" in terms of behaviour will always reduce to weighing desires/beliefs/actions that will tend to fulfill those desires.


Acting on desire and belief may lead me to kill every member of an opposing religion because they desecrate my chosen deity. according to your definition, that would be "acting on my beliefs and desires" and thus completely rational behavior. o_O

That's true. A belief doesn't necessarily have to be true in order for it to inspire rational behavior. Yesterday I grabbed the car keys to use the car for a trip to the hardware store. But when I got to the driveway I saw my wife had taken the car to work that morning (doesn't usually do so). My belief that the car was there for me to use was incorrect. But my behavior in expecation of taking a drive was totally rational given the belief the car was there as usual. So behavior motivated by false beliefs can be rational with regard to those beliefs and desires. We can of course talk about which beliefs themselves are rational, and how to best form rational beliefs, but that gets in to another topic.


I don't think this is a fair analogy. You are comparing a "no-choice scenario" to a deliberate choice here.
If a decent vinyl setup was all I had, you can bet your gluteus maximus on it, that I would enjoy the crap out of it. As you said: the systems are already good enough to get the musical message across.

Good, we agree. Simply seeking a musical experience is rational.


Lets step away from the term "irrational" and call it "emotion driven decision". The above is 100% that. A logical decision would be to know that you do not need a ritual or a spinning disc to focus on music. Logically, these things are all irrelevant (assuming the actual musical content is the same).

You are making a mistake, arguing from arm-chair "logic" and your own presumptions and proclivities, and forgetting to incorporate empirical realities about human psychology.

So from my own experience: While it is the case I can enjoy music on any number of systems, that tends to be more as a background listening. So I can enjoy
music playing in the background on our kitchen smart speaker while I prepare dinner, but it's not a device that would encourage me to sit down and listen, focusing only on the music and doing nothing else. That's what my high end system is for - high quality sound and focused listening.

So when it comes to my goal of focused listening, contrary to your claim, I do indeed find that I am much more able to focus on listening when I'm spinning vinyl, vs when I am streaming music. When I have millions of tracks at the swipe of my fingertip, I tend to engage music that way, swiping, swiping, swiping through tracks...looking for the next thing "i might like better" like how being on the internet tends to produce this mindset for many people. When I play vinyl I effortlessly forget "seeking the next track" and just listen to a whole album (usually). That's what I'm seeking, that's what listening to vinyl satisfies among other things. Now, the fact YOU might not have the same psychological reaction to streaming doesn't negate for a moment the reality of my own psychological reaction. Therefore streaming may be the reasonable choice for YOUR purposes, but not always for MINE. So, no, it's wrong to say "logically these things are all irrelevant." In fact, "some things" affect how people experience "other things."

You deliberately choosing the vinyl setup over your digital one, despite having the same master available for both is akin to people choosing a different EQ profile, depending on the mood of the day.

To reiterate: I'm not saying it is "wrong" to do so, but it is not logical behavior. It is emotional behavior.
And that is what I wanted to express in my first post about humans being "irrational" creatures. That absolutely includes myself of course. :D

While I appreciate you include yourself, you are still suggesting some divide between "rational" and "irrational" behaviour with regards to choosing which format to listen to. You have been trying to defend that listening to digital would be "rational" while choosing vinyl would represent "irrational" choices. For all the reasons I've given, that's just not so. Dig down to the reasons you WANT to use the most accurate source you can and you will inevitably hit your own emotional desire as the reason. You aren't just some disapationate scientist in persuing a good sound system and listening to music. The underlying motivation is no doubt a love of music and ultimately how YOU want to experience it. You prefer as much accuracy as possible. It's a personal choice and we can talk about "what actions would be rational GIVEN the desire for sonic accuracy." But that's just a preference-driven choice, just like mine to often play vinyl. Given differences in individuals and their goals, there is no rational/irrational divide embedded IN THE MEDIUM. It all boils down to achieving what the individual desires to achieve, so satisfy his/her preference.
 

pablolie

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Just because people make a mistake based on ill-applied "beliefs" doesn't mean they never learn from the experience and correct their expectations (I think expectation is what dictates our audio stuff more than deeply held beliefs). Newton didn't expect an apple to whack his head etc. Hence he corrected himself, quantifying gravity ec. :) Humans learn all the time - at least I hope so.

Me personally, I think holding "beliefs" in audio is ill advised, since a lot of it is indeed quantifiable. As I mentioned before, I totally accept that others accept the ritual of vinyl as something that makes them immerse themselves more in their music. But it's ill advised to claim it's due to an audible, measurable superiority of the medium - all things like original master etc being equal. No one doubts hamfisted audio engineering can eff up any medium, but blame the engineer, not the medium. If I can't make a Ferrari accelerate from 0-60 faster than my -say- Toyota Corolla, we know where the fault lies. :)
 

Aerith Gainsborough

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So, as always, what is "rational" in terms of behaviour will always reduce to weighing desires/beliefs/actions that will tend to fulfill those desires.
So you say, that rational or irrational has nothing to do with actual objective logic at all? It's nothing that can be quantified by other people?

If so, what would constitute "irrational" behavior in your book? Someone going against their actual desires?

If someone says to me "You are behaving in an irrational manner!" what exactly does he mean? That he cannot logically reconcile why I act the way I do?
We can of course talk about which beliefs themselves are rational, and how to best form rational beliefs, but that gets in to another topic.
*chuckles* Yeah, best not to open that particular can of worms. :'D
I tend to engage music that way, swiping, swiping, swiping through tracks...looking for the next thing "i might like better" like how being on the internet tends to produce this mindset for many people.
Interesting, so in essence, too much choice or to be more precise: too comfortable access, can be paralyze/distract?
I mean you could face the same problem, while listening to your chosen record: you stare at your shelf (probably containing hundreds of them), wondering what to play next and whether to finish the current album or not. I guess having to lift up the butt and physically handle the medium and the equipment makes the difference?
Basically: desire to be lazy > desire for the next "kick"?

I'm similar to you with digital media: I stick to actual folders with albums in them and usually choose one and let it run through it's content.

you are still suggesting some divide between "rational" and "irrational" behaviour with regards to choosing which format to listen to.
Actually I no longer do. I said that it is an emotional choice of preference.
You aren't just some disapationate scientist in persuing a good sound system and listening to music.
Actually: I am.
To be perfectly frank: I don't give many hoots about the system involved, as long as it gets out of my way and doesn't negatively interfere with my perception of music (e.g.: clicks and pops of vinyl).
That's probably why I can be content with a budget level AVR, at which many here would turn up their noses. Because I cannot hear anything detrimental from the unit (distortion or noise). *shrug*
 
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MattHooper

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So you say, that rational or irrational has nothing to do with actual objective logic at all? It's nothing that can be quantified by other people?

If so, what would constitute "irrational" behavior in your book? Someone going against their actual desires?

If someone says to me "You are behaving in an irrational manner!" what exactly does he mean? That he cannot logically reconcile why I act the way I do?

Well "rationality" entails the use of reason which has the general feature of being logical (conclusions follow from premises), reasoning from evidence and being consistent/coherent.

So, generally I'd say that irrational beliefs or behaviors occur when that breaks down: coming to conclusions that are using poor methods of inference, inconstant with our reasoning elsewhere, or making choices that go against our wider web of interests, which certainly can be driven by emotion. Though, as I said, that an act is driven by emotion does not per se entail irrationality - I'd have an overpowering emotional reaction and urge to save my child if they were in trouble, which is also perfectly reasonable. All motivations for action ultimately arise from desire. But of course there are times when a strong emotion or desire can compel us to come to illogical conclusions, or to make decisions that go against our wider interests. There's nothing novel in pointing that out, and I presume you generally agree.

Here's an example I could give of someone "behaving irrational." My wife, who is generally ultra rational, has some triggers that make her say irrational things.
She's a penny pincher, absolutely cannot abide the possibility of "wasted money."

So for instance if we are at restaurant and I order an item, and upon tasting it I report "this doesn't taste very good" or "this is overcooked" or any dissatisfaction that suggests "the money was wasted" my wife, triggered by the horror of possibly wasted money will say something like "Well...why did you order it then??!!!!"

In any normal time she'd recognize how utterly irrational that question is. But she doesn't think rationally under those circumstances.

For me, if I bought an expensive audiophile AC cable believing it upgraded the sound of my system - just because I perceived a difference - that would be pretty irrational given how it does not fit coherently within my generally skeptical approach to audio. As in extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, the claim about the AC cable would be an extraordinary claim, so I'd want stronger more reliable evidence than sighted listening.

But could I nonetheless make a rational decision to buy such a cable, given the rest of my beliefs?
I think so: I could purchase it on the grounds: 1. I very much like the aesthetics, and find a nicer looking AC cable worth paying for. 2. I have such a strong, reliable positive change in perception in the sound of my system when this cable is used, that I'm happy to take advantage of that placebo effect.

I generally care about what is true, and those motivations don't require accepting untruths. It's taking advantage of truths about my psychology.

That's just an example. I wouldn't buy an expensive AC cable. But I do have similar justifications available (as well as others) for enjoying tube amps in my system. Or vinyl for that matter.



*chuckles* Yeah, best not to open that particular can of worms. :'D

Interesting, so in essence, too much choice or to be more precise: too comfortable access, can be paralyze/distract?
I mean you could face the same problem, while listening to your chosen record: you stare at your shelf (probably containing hundreds of them), wondering what to play next and whether to finish the current album or not. I guess having to lift up the butt and physically handle the medium and the equipment makes the difference?
Basically: desire to be lazy > desire for the next "kick"?

My streaming problem comes from the combination of "too much" choice combined with the ease of access. (This by the way is a very, very common theme echoed by people getting in to vinyl, including many of the younger generation who have grown up with digital media).

I find it pretty easy to select music to listen to. But cutting down the ease of skipping to the next track helps a lot (as does some of the other aspects of selecting and physically playing an album, which seems to ready my mind for the task of just listening to THAT album).



I'm similar to you with digital media: I stick to actual folders with albums in them and usually choose one and let it run through it's content.


Actually I no longer do. I said that it is an emotional choice of preference.

Actually: I am.
To be perfectly frank: I don't give many hoots about the system involved, as long as it gets out of my way and doesn't negatively interfere with my perception of music (e.g.: clicks and pops of vinyl).
That's probably why I can be content with a budget level AVR, at which many here would turn up their noses. Because I cannot hear anything detrimental from the unit (distortion or noise). *shrug*

I think we are closer to agreement than when we started out. Thanks for the interesting conversation.
 

posvibes

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But could I nonetheless make a rational decision to buy such a cable, given the rest of my beliefs?
I think so: I could purchase it on the grounds: 1. I very much like the aesthetics, and find a nicer looking AC cable worth paying for. 2. I have such a strong, reliable positive change in perception in the sound of my system when this cable is used, that I'm happy to take advantage of that placebo effect.

You could, as we all do, often and in issues and circumstances vitally more important than a vinyl vs digital debate, use rationality to argue for rational justification for the irrational, which I think you have done here in offering such a scenario in regards to a cable.

One can find and make excuses as a way of justifying an irrational decision, as I said above in other realms this can be catastrophic, disastrous, and lethal on a global existential level.

I suppose "science" in some regard is the circuit breaker for closing down those types of reasoning loops and opens the door to discussion in which others can contribute, debate, disagree or agree etc. whereby logic and reason are hopefully enough to come to a common view.

"Strong, reliable positive change in perception"," happy to take advantage" and "placebo effect" have been very effective currents throughout human history, often neither for positive change or our advantage and more often unfortunately in reality than perceived.

@MattHooper I always enjoy your contributions, and I am probably way way off topic here and this should not be taken as a direct answer to your post, but an aside on the some of things you raised.

This last week or so I have been listening to vinyl, and I go all in as I have been using a Hugh Dean designed amplifier for full effect, but I gotta say as pleasant as it has been, I'm going back to all digital with no regrets, I am too old for nostalgia.
 

MattHooper

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Thanks for the positive words.

You could, as we all do, often and in issues and circumstances vitally more important than a vinyl vs digital debate, use rationality to argue for rational justification for the irrational, which I think you have done here in offering such a scenario in regards to a cable.

One can find and make excuses as a way of justifying an irrational decision, as I said above in other realms this can be catastrophic, disastrous, and lethal on a global existential level.

I suppose "science" in some regard is the circuit breaker for closing down those types of reasoning loops and opens the door to discussion in which others can contribute, debate, disagree or agree etc. whereby logic and reason are hopefully enough to come to a common view.

"Strong, reliable positive change in perception"," happy to take advantage" and "placebo effect" have been very effective currents throughout human history, often neither for positive change or our advantage and more often unfortunately in reality than perceived.

There was nothing irrational in the justification I gave for buying the expensive AC cable. There was no delusion implied, only (in principle) facts, and reasoning from those facts to successfully achieve a goal.

You can't ignore human psychology as a factor, the things that affect mood, feelings and perception and hence our experience, when reasoning about which actions are rational. If you enjoyed sharing jokes with a friend, would it make sense to phone them up to tell a joke if you'd also just learned they had lost their child in a terrible accident? If you ignored the way those circumstances would affect your friend's ability to laugh at a joke because - "So what? It's a funny joke!" - then you'd be the irrational one, right?

Likewise it's entirely rational to consider how something affects your mood or perception when making a decision, including even a placebo-like effect:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-the-placebo-effect

It seems to me that there is a bit of slippage going on here where some are seeing an non-rational element, seizing on that and concluding that any reasoning incorporating that non-rational element must be therefore irrational.

It's a similar mistake, I believe, to that made by evolution-denying young earth creationists. They are always banging on about how "complexity like the human eye can't come about by some RANDOM process of evolution! That's like a tornado swirling through a junk yard and randomly creating a car!"

What's happening there, as Richard Dawkins had to explain until blue in the face, is that they are seizing upon ONE element of the process and ignoring the rest. They are seizing on the part that involves "random mutation" (random with respect to reproductive fitness) and saying "it's random." But of course that's only one part of the process; Natural selection acting on those random mutations turns the result in to a decidedly NON- Random process (where fitness is selected for). So the creationists have got it entirely backwards.

Likewise, rational actions involve a chain of reasoning, not just one part: start with a desire/preference/goal, bring in your knowledge/beliefs, reason about which action is most likely to fulfill that desire/preference/goal. If you ONLY look at the way a desire or preference arises, which may be non-rational, you are forgetting about the rest of what makes up for a rational decision. It may turn out that you find pizzas with mushrooms added to be especially tasty. That may be a non-rational reaction to the taste of mushrooms on pizza (as in a preference that arises naturally, not something arrived at by deliberation), but HAVING that desire means adding mushrooms to your pizza is the rational action. Just like evolution isn't "random" because it begins with "random mutation" so "rational choices" are not "irrational" because they may start from a non-rational feeling/preference or whatever.

So, with that in mind: IF I really liked the way an AC cable looked, that would add value for me. Satisfy that preference. If it also reliably produced a placebo-like effect of my enjoying the system more, altering my perception in a way I liked, then I can take that fact in to account and justify a purchase. It wouldn't involve accepting untruths that contradict anything else I believe. It would be starting from noting how certain factors positively affect my experience of my system, and using that to my advantage. So I have a desire to increase my positive experience of my system, I have knowledge/belief that the AC cable produces that perception (even if I know it's not changing the sound), therefore reason tells me using the cable would be a way of fulfilling that goal. Just like, say, buying some colored lighting to set a mood in the room could do so.

Ok, that's off my chest, I'm done with that topic (I hope).

@MattHooper I always enjoy your contributions, and I am probably way way off topic here and this should not be taken as a direct answer to your post, but an aside on the some of things you raised.

This last week or so I have been listening to vinyl, and I go all in as I have been using a Hugh Dean designed amplifier for full effect, but I gotta say as pleasant as it has been, I'm going back to all digital with no regrets, I am too old for nostalgia.

That's cool and I totally understand it. As much as possible I believe we should try to understand the preferences and goals of other people, rather than judging their actions on the basis of our own personal goals.
 
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Berwhale

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Here is some more truth about vinyl records. This chap managed to sell £1.2m ($1.5m) worth of fake ones over a six year period before anyone noticed the poor quality and complained...

 

Freeform

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I am a relative newcomer to ASR, and the informative postings of @Punter but ...

Of all your 'The Truth About...' threads, I find the opening argument here the least satisfactory. Whilst the technical superiority of CD is unarguable, its benefits needed no exaggeration with claims of 150dB dynamic range, which is not even theoretically possible.

Further, in the early years of CD, in the rush to produce the new catalogue, many releases were made using the cutting master, or at least not taking advantage of full benefits of the new format, thus giving some of the worst of both worlds.

It also ignores the fact that, for almost half a century, the LP was the primary available source for domestic listening, especially so for 20th century music and so today, if one accepts the purpose of any high fidelity system is to bring to the ear of the listener the artform that is music, despite its shortcomings, the LP and the means to play it remains a valid part of many serious music collections and systems.

For myself, I may have spent more than is objectively sensible on turntables, arms and cartridges, but I still have many satisfying and musically important albums that, having never made it to the digital catalogues, would not be heard, and still more that had to be transcribed to digital from vinyl to make available at all.

It is also surprising how, despite genuine technical shortcomings, that it works at all, and the LP and it's replay equipment can provide a musically satisfying result and reward effort spent on good amplifiers at loudspeakers.
 
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Achim1812

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Shortly after start of the "Vinyl Renaissance", which I love because never stopped obsession with turntable stuff, I made a decision for me:
Only buy vinyl if it was the/one original format at the release date of the production. Simply owning a vinyl because it's a vinyl is not my target. If the music at the release date not was planned to be released as LP I stay with the CD.
 

anmpr1

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Shortly after start of the "Vinyl Renaissance", which I love because never stopped obsession with turntable stuff, I made a decision...

Needing a couple of quarts of 10-30 for the tractor, I decided to 'wander around' the big box, all the time checking out the Girls of Walmart out of the corner of my eye. Always something um... er... interesting in the latest fashions, there.

Anyhow, I accidentally came upon the record section. Not a huge selection, but representative--from the Limp Blimp (I think it was Led Zep II), the one with with the baby in the swimming pool chasing money, Van Halen, and so forth. Plus, a lot of acts I'd never seen or heard of, before. About thirty dollars, with a handful going for a bit more. Not too bad, given inflation, I guess.

Also noticed they were selling inexpensive guitars from Cort (Cor Tek--Indonesia) and 10-46 D'Addarios. I think they even had some Snarks. I filed that bit of info away for later use, when Guitar Center goes belly up. I was getting excited and wanted to explore the aisle a little more in-depth, but waifu wanted to check out dishwashing detergent, so I'll have to go back again, later. If I had had a bit more time, I think I might have found the Maxell UD 3600 open reel tape, but that will have to wait until next trip.
 

Kw6

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If you know how mastering is done for vinyl (and i did before) you knew this. But that does not stop me from liking vinyl a lot, and a lot of mastering engineers i know (who master vinyl also) do the same. One of the more important mastering engineers in Europe that i know (Jerboa) has a huge vinyl collection, and some esotheric electronics to play it on his system. His mastering monitor setup is a Kii Tree BXT system (one of the most neutral digital systems i know) altough...

But that vinyl is not "true to the source" is proven old news and more than once mentioned here. It just brings more joy to listen to than digital. I also listen to a lot of "digital source" music, stored on my nas and streamed over lan altough, as it's way more practical and not all music that i like is released on vinyl or easy to find for a reasonable price.
I agree! Stream Adele's new 30 album in Hi Rez or CD vs her 2 record LP is an example why I prefer listening to most music on vinyl.
 

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I agree! Stream Adele's new 30 album in Hi Rez or CD vs her 2 record LP is an example why I prefer listening to most music on vinyl.
That's a case of a steaming turd versus a turd though, it has to be said. Somebody as popular as Adele really should get better service from at least one, if not both formats.

I say that as someone who isn't a fan, but if massive stars just get this crap, what chance do other artists in the popular fields have?
 
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EarlessOldMan

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Needing a couple of quarts of 10-30 for the tractor, I decided to 'wander around' the big box, all the time checking out the Girls of Walmart out of the corner of my eye. Always something um... er... interesting in the latest fashions, there.

Anyhow, I accidentally came upon the record section. Not a huge selection, but representative--from the Limp Blimp (I think it was Led Zep II), the one with with the baby in the swimming pool chasing money, Van Halen, and so forth. Plus, a lot of acts I'd never seen or heard of, before. About thirty dollars, with a handful going for a bit more. Not too bad, given inflation, I guess.

Also noticed they were selling inexpensive guitars from Cort (Cor Tek--Indonesia) and 10-46 D'Addarios. I think they even had some Snarks. I filed that bit of info away for later use, when Guitar Center goes belly up. I was getting excited and wanted to explore the aisle a little more in-depth, but waifu wanted to check out dishwashing detergent, so I'll have to go back again, later. If I had had a bit more time, I think I might have found the Maxell UD 3600 open reel tape, but that will have to wait until next trip.
The Walmart near me is selling a Washburn-branded Strat-style electric in a single-single-humbucker configuration. It comes in a set with a 10-watt practice amp, cable, gig bag, stand, extra strings, and picks. I have bought a bunch of cheap Strat-style guitars over the past few years, and most of them are just fine, although they almost always suffer from fret sprout.

I'd rather have a Squier. But I'm thinking of buying one of those Washburns to try it out.
 

Kw6

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That's a case of a steaming turd versus a turd though, it has to be said. Somebody as popular as Adele really should get better service from at least one, if not both formats.

I say that as someone who isn't a fan, but if massive stars just get this crap, what chance do other artists in the popular fields have?
What digital file should I try to seek out and compare. I only Qobuz for now.
 

Galliardist

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What digital file should I try to seek out and compare. I only Qobuz for now.
What result would you like?

I don’t have vinyl so I probably can’t guarantee a proper comparison for you anyway.

Most vinyl is at least listenable. Sometimes I visit hi fi stores for different reasons and that’s how I got subjected to the Adele LP.
 
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Kw6

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What result would you like?

I don’t have vinyl so I probably can’t guarantee a proper comparison for you anyway.

Most vinyl is at least listenable. Sometimes I visit hi fi stores for different reasons and that’s how I got subjected to the Adele LP.
Ok gotcha! Btw I'm not sure if you made it to the Pacific Audio Fest show in Seattle but it was my first time hearing analog tape which was playing Herbie Hancock Empty Pockets to me it sounded amazing! Btw I saw Amir there too! He had so many fans around him!
 
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