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The Truth About Vinyl Records
- Thread starter Punter
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Really? And there not stereo, only left or right?
Jimi Floyd
Active Member
On the Analogue Productions test record there is a sweep track 1kHz to 10Hz recorded with vertical modulation, i.e. 180° phase between L and R
One thing to keep in mind when talking about good vinyl, is that the concept of stereo and two speakers does not equate to a "you are there" but an attempt to get you to believe enough in it that you are there. It is a degree of belief, and many of us simply accept it as the poorish attempt it is to bring the venue into our listening room.
Stereo worked well in cinema to project sounds from either side of the screen, and with vision combined it works quite well. Without vision it does not work as well, and is a rather weird effect for your brain to work on when your eyes are open staring into the space between and around your speakers. The "trick" of stereo is pretty week for sure.
The way I see it is that vinyl weaknesses happened to enhance the illusion and not hurt it with two channel stereo. Is it inferior to digital in all respects when it comes to science, yes, no question. However, it does for many folks enhance the experience of the very week stereo two channel playback system when not watching a video or movie with visible cues.
While I have both in my home, preparing to listen to vinyl always gives me some kind of unexplainable feeling of better enjoyment in the listening session.
I can leave you with an example, if you can visit someone who have a test record, first listen to a digital 1Khz tone then listen to the test records 1Khz tone, and which one "sounds" "better" (not more pristine or accurate) to you. If the vinyl does, then the point may be that your preference may be for a less than pristine playback over two channel stereo. If so, tubes or vinyl may be more to your preference.
Amazingly, the absolute best "sound" I have ever heard from a playback system was one of the last wind up turntables with the horn for the speaker, and one of the last well recorded records for that type of machine. The quality, clarity, realism, and pure reproduction of what was on that record translated directly from a needle in a groove to the transducer in the bottom of that horn to the air (this was an outdoor event) knocked me off my feet like no reproduction system has ever done, and to this day I regret not purchasing that system on the spot, just to show how damaging our speaker systems are to sound, no one will believe me but I was in my thirties and had full hearing capabilities at the time. It is truly my one regret in audio even to this day to not have purchased that system.
Bottom line, distortion is not necessarily a bad thing to all people when it comes to enjoyment of audio. Stereo is a week system and does not provide enough of what happened at the original event to be believable by many. IF you had a "technically in all ways perfect" stereo system, you might find it did not fully satisfy you!
Stereo worked well in cinema to project sounds from either side of the screen, and with vision combined it works quite well. Without vision it does not work as well, and is a rather weird effect for your brain to work on when your eyes are open staring into the space between and around your speakers. The "trick" of stereo is pretty week for sure.
The way I see it is that vinyl weaknesses happened to enhance the illusion and not hurt it with two channel stereo. Is it inferior to digital in all respects when it comes to science, yes, no question. However, it does for many folks enhance the experience of the very week stereo two channel playback system when not watching a video or movie with visible cues.
While I have both in my home, preparing to listen to vinyl always gives me some kind of unexplainable feeling of better enjoyment in the listening session.
I can leave you with an example, if you can visit someone who have a test record, first listen to a digital 1Khz tone then listen to the test records 1Khz tone, and which one "sounds" "better" (not more pristine or accurate) to you. If the vinyl does, then the point may be that your preference may be for a less than pristine playback over two channel stereo. If so, tubes or vinyl may be more to your preference.
Amazingly, the absolute best "sound" I have ever heard from a playback system was one of the last wind up turntables with the horn for the speaker, and one of the last well recorded records for that type of machine. The quality, clarity, realism, and pure reproduction of what was on that record translated directly from a needle in a groove to the transducer in the bottom of that horn to the air (this was an outdoor event) knocked me off my feet like no reproduction system has ever done, and to this day I regret not purchasing that system on the spot, just to show how damaging our speaker systems are to sound, no one will believe me but I was in my thirties and had full hearing capabilities at the time. It is truly my one regret in audio even to this day to not have purchased that system.
Bottom line, distortion is not necessarily a bad thing to all people when it comes to enjoyment of audio. Stereo is a week system and does not provide enough of what happened at the original event to be believable by many. IF you had a "technically in all ways perfect" stereo system, you might find it did not fully satisfy you!
Yes, proper stereo in concept needs a center channel to really help the image.
JeremyFife
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Nice summary - thank you!
Equally interesting, informative and depressing
Equally interesting, informative and depressing
I'm really not sure about that, as 2 channel stereo reproduced with a centre channel made up of L+R, will have weird imaging that's not smooth L to R. Certainly if stereo was distributed as proper 3 channel i.e. mixed as such, then it would be an improvement, but there wasn't a way of distributing 3 Channel stereo before digital, and by then it was too late to change.
S
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That's a lovely setup you have there. I'm interested in knowing the make of the turntable and arm please. The arm looks like an SME. They are both very nice indeed!
theREALdotnet
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And like any hobby, it’s not a matter of life and death. It’s far more serious.
theREALdotnet
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I don’t think that’s what @egellings was trying to say at all. What’s required is a darkened room (or closed eyes), so that the sight of two stereo speakers doesn’t ruin the sonic result they produce, such as a perfectly well-defined centre image.
I'm sure it depends on the setup. My center image is nailed in place, eyes open or closed.
theREALdotnet
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True dat. In a properly performing stereo setup the speakers do not appear to be sound sources at all. Except for content that’s panned hard to one channel, but that doesn’t occur very often, and hardly ever with acoustic music.
Vacceo
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Traditionally, I have red and listen to opinions that systems are "binary" in that regard: if you want spatial perception, you will not get that dissapearence or the other way round. For film (and games), you want to be able to locate the procedence of the sound while for music, you want the whole thing blended.
My experience with systems that allow you to locate the procedence of the sound (for Atmos reproduction), if well, set, will also be able to "blend" music, even upmixed. Since this is a subjective perception, I guess that the actual trick is in the interaction between speakers and room, hence allowing the source to blend in or not depending on how it was recorded and mastered.
D
Deleted member 50971
Guest
Great article thank you. In my opinion vinyl reproduction can sound very good, but I’m under no illusion that it sounds as good as digital. It’s not for everyone, but it is fun to trying to squeeze out that last little bit of… the best it can be.
Probably worth saying what genres of music this is for. I like vinyl for pop and rock music, but I get a much better illusion of live with two channel digital than I do with vinyl, simply because I know the sound of real instruments (attend the NYPO, BSO with somewhat regularity and chamber and piano recitals with much greater frequency) and it sounds much closer to digital than the extra pleasing second harmonics added by vinyl.
D
Deleted member 50971
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I like the center image myself, and it varies with the recording. Sometimes I’ll even get carried away and try to play instruments within soundstage, but that’s very recording dependent IMO. I believe it happens more when you search for it. Placebo? I have thought about that.
I've tried to hear the separate speakers, but when the image is anywhere between them I just can't. I have no clear idea what I did right, but I'll take it!
D
Deleted member 50971
Guest
I appreciate the discussion without judgment from others. “We” (vinyl lovers) already know digital is superior, but we are tinkerers, much like tube people, and our faces light up when we get it right. We don’t expect everyone to get it, and most of us don’t push our beliefs on others, but we do enjoy a good discussion. Another good point is our gear has been appreciating in value for the last 20 years.
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