# The Truth About Phono Cartridges

#### Newman

##### Major Contributor
The actual force on the contact patch where the stylus touches the vinyl can be around 42tons with a tracking force of 7 grams.
The actual force of a stylus with a tracking force of 7 grams is 7 grams.

I assume you are trying to say that the pressure (not force) is huge even though the weight is small, because the weight is focused on a tiny contact patch area?

Perhaps correct this to something like, “The actual force pressure on the contact patch where the stylus touches the vinyl can be around 42tons xxx psi (yyy kiloPascals) with a tracking force of 7 grams.

Or pull the sentence altogether.

#### JoachimStrobel

##### Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Yes, the NEEDLE, its choice, shape, compliance … was the centerpiece of the 70’s audiophile world for me. Probably because it was a mechanic device that one could look at. Good times. Bad times when the kids tested the compliance of the needle in real terms.

OP

#### Punter

##### Active Member
The actual force of a stylus with a tracking force of 7 grams is 7 grams.

I assume you are trying to say that the pressure (not force) is huge even though the weight is small, because the weight is focused on a tiny contact patch area?

Perhaps correct this to something like, “The actual force pressure on the contact patch where the stylus touches the vinyl can be around 42tons xxx psi (yyy kiloPascals) with a tracking force of 7 grams.

Or pull the sentence altogether.
Yes I was driving at the force applied to the contact patch. It was a bit of an impulse to include it, just found a snippet of information and included it. I seem to have lost the ability to edit the post.

#### Newman

##### Major Contributor
The force applied to the contact patch is... 7 grams.

You need to re-write it as pressure...and work out how much is the pressure and in what units. Make sure you don't use tons at any point

Given the nature of the OP, maybe ask mods if they can help to allow you to make factual edits.

And if you do get back into it, don't delete original text; just change it to strikethrough format and add correct text. And make it perfectly clear that it is an edit.

cheers

#### Urubamba

##### Member
Hi, what stylus are you using for the 881S? Have you used Vivid Line by lpgear? I'm torn between shibata or vivid line, but there isn't much info on vivid line. What will you advise me?
I was hoping for an answer to that, I have two 881S and I would like to use them again, but I have read mixed opinions between the Jico stylus and the LP Gear stylus.....
Ultimately, an aftermarket stylus in that body will outperform a completely new "entry level" cartridge, or won't it? ......

Nobody ?

#### Unionista

##### Member
I don't have the 881S but I did get the Vivid Line stylus for an old Pickering XV-15/625e that I found in a drawer and forgot that I owned. For a lot of music it's now my favorite cart, especially for most rock music although it does well on solo piano, too. The Denon LOMC on my other rig outperforms the XV in detail but, to my ears, it's a close call. The only "entry level" carts I have for comparison are Ortofon OM-5, OM-10 and an OM-30 (hardly "entry level") that I have not used in years. The XV/Vivid Line is WAY better than those. I wouldn't be afraid of an 881S/Vivid Line combination.

#### jmillar

##### Active Member
Back in the 1970s I worked at a hifi shop during my college years. There was a concept at the time, that after dragging a diamond stylus through a vinyl record groove, the high frequency information was destroyed after 7 plays or so. Is there any truth to this myth?
In the late 60's and early 70's there was a consensus in "Stereo Review" and "High Fidelity" magazines that the best way to listen to vinyl recordings was to play them once and transfer them to tape. It might have been a way to foster the widespread adoption of R2R tape decks. People were very paranoid about stylus compliance, 1 gram or lower force, stylus wear, antiskating rigs, "white room" dust procedures, etc. Not ideal, not very poetic. ;-)

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#### Bernard23

##### Senior Member
In the late 60's and early 70's there was a consensus in "Stereo Review" and "High Fidelity" magazines that the best way to listen to vinyl recordings was to play them once and transfer them to tape. It might have been a way to foster the widespread adoption of R2R tape decks. People were very paranoid about stylus compliance, 1 gram or lower force, stylus wear, antiskating rigs, "white room" dust procedures, etc. Not ideal, not very poetic. ;-)
Sounds rather like the obsession with bit perfect in the early days of digital streaming.

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