The Truth About Phono Cartridges

[Newman]

The actual force on the contact patch where the stylus touches the vinyl can be around 42tons with a tracking force of 7 grams.

The actual force of a stylus with a tracking force of 7 grams is 7 grams.

I assume you are trying to say that the pressure (not force) is huge even though the weight is small, because the weight is focused on a tiny contact patch area?

Perhaps correct this to something like, “The actual force pressure on the contact patch where the stylus touches the vinyl can be around 42tons xxx psi (yyy kiloPascals) with a tracking force of 7 grams.”

Or pull the sentence altogether.

 

[JoachimStrobel]

Yes, the NEEDLE, its choice, shape, compliance … was the centerpiece of the 70’s audiophile world for me. Probably because it was a mechanic device that one could look at. Good times. Bad times when the kids tested the compliance of the needle in real terms.

 

[Punter]

The actual force of a stylus with a tracking force of 7 grams is 7 grams.

I assume you are trying to say that the pressure (not force) is huge even though the weight is small, because the weight is focused on a tiny contact patch area?

Perhaps correct this to something like, “The actual force pressure on the contact patch where the stylus touches the vinyl can be around 42tons xxx psi (yyy kiloPascals) with a tracking force of 7 grams.”

Or pull the sentence altogether.

Yes I was driving at the force applied to the contact patch. It was a bit of an impulse to include it, just found a snippet of information and included it. I seem to have lost the ability to edit the post.

 

[Newman]

The force applied to the contact patch is... 7 grams.

You need to re-write it as pressure...and work out how much is the pressure and in what units. Make sure you don't use tons at any point

Given the nature of the OP, maybe ask mods if they can help to allow you to make factual edits.

And if you do get back into it, don't delete original text; just change it to strikethrough format and add correct text. And make it perfectly clear that it is an edit.

cheers

 

[Urubamba]

Hi, what stylus are you using for the 881S? Have you used Vivid Line by lpgear? I'm torn between shibata or vivid line, but there isn't much info on vivid line. What will you advise me?

I was hoping for an answer to that, I have two 881S and I would like to use them again, but I have read mixed opinions between the Jico stylus and the LP Gear stylus.....
Ultimately, an aftermarket stylus in that body will outperform a completely new "entry level" cartridge, or won't it? ......

 

[Urubamba]

Nobody ?

 

[Unionista]

I don't have the 881S but I did get the Vivid Line stylus for an old Pickering XV-15/625e that I found in a drawer and forgot that I owned. For a lot of music it's now my favorite cart, especially for most rock music although it does well on solo piano, too. The Denon LOMC on my other rig outperforms the XV in detail but, to my ears, it's a close call. The only "entry level" carts I have for comparison are Ortofon OM-5, OM-10 and an OM-30 (hardly "entry level") that I have not used in years. The XV/Vivid Line is WAY better than those. I wouldn't be afraid of an 881S/Vivid Line combination.

 

[jmillar]

Back in the 1970s I worked at a hifi shop during my college years. There was a concept at the time, that after dragging a diamond stylus through a vinyl record groove, the high frequency information was destroyed after 7 plays or so. Is there any truth to this myth?

In the late 60's and early 70's there was a consensus in "Stereo Review" and "High Fidelity" magazines that the best way to listen to vinyl recordings was to play them once and transfer them to tape. It might have been a way to foster the widespread adoption of R2R tape decks. People were very paranoid about stylus compliance, 1 gram or lower force, stylus wear, antiskating rigs, "white room" dust procedures, etc. Not ideal, not very poetic. ;-)

 

[Bernard23]

In the late 60's and early 70's there was a consensus in "Stereo Review" and "High Fidelity" magazines that the best way to listen to vinyl recordings was to play them once and transfer them to tape. It might have been a way to foster the widespread adoption of R2R tape decks. People were very paranoid about stylus compliance, 1 gram or lower force, stylus wear, antiskating rigs, "white room" dust procedures, etc. Not ideal, not very poetic. ;-)

Sounds rather like the obsession with bit perfect in the early days of digital streaming.

 

[Audiofire]

I could never get any of my turntables working right.

Makes perfect sense, none of them work right for real hi-fi

 

[Bernard23]

Makes perfect sense, none of them work right for real hi-fi

If indeed that real hifi exists at all.

 

[Audiofire]

If indeed that real hifi exists at all.

Right, let us keep it to fidelity to the recording.

 

[Bernard23]

Right, let us keep it to fidelity to the recording.

I'd agree, once there was proof that the original recording was faithful to the actual performance. There is no traceability from a science perspective for large chunks of music genres. I didn't buy a top quality monitor to check other people's photographs on.

 

[Audiofire]

I'd agree, once there was proof that the original recording was faithful to the actual performance.

The fidelity of music releases to the master recording. You are now talking about something other than me. Studio recordings are mixed and mastered, so not what I meant by real hi-fi.

 

[Wiredforsound]

In the late 60's and early 70's there was a consensus in "Stereo Review" and "High Fidelity" magazines that the best way to listen to vinyl recordings was to play them once and transfer them to tape. It might have been a way to foster the widespread adoption of R2R tape decks. People were very paranoid about stylus compliance, 1 gram or lower force, stylus wear, antiskating rigs, "white room" dust procedures, etc. Not ideal, not very poetic. ;-)

Yes had experienced this.
It does lose fidelity with playing. Heard it back in my golden hearing days.
Had a friend with a reel to reel he used to transfer to reel to reel ASAP, if not first time playing.
Maybe he read that article, but this was 1976-78

 

[Bernard23]

Yes had experienced this.
It does lose fidelity with playing. Heard it back in my golden hearing days.
Had a friend with a reel to reel he used to transfer to reel to reel ASAP, if not first time playing.
Maybe he read that article, but this was 1976-78

Back in the 70s the Japanese notably Technics and JVC were pioneering quadrophinic vinyl playback, this required a carrier signal of 40kHz to be recorded and played back. I didn't own or ever listen to one, but I doubt that this information was stripped out after a handful of plays otherwise it would never have been commercialised.

 

[Wiredforsound]

There were sonic differences, audible.

Also remember when quadrafonic sound came in.
Know of Nashville recording studio owner and his partner who pioneered quadrafonic sound.
David Briggs.

 

[dlaloum]

Back in the 70s the Japanese notably Technics and JVC were pioneering quadrophinic vinyl playback, this required a carrier signal of 40kHz to be recorded and played back. I didn't own or ever listen to one, but I doubt that this information was stripped out after a handful of plays otherwise it would never have been commercialised.

The common styli at the time could not track the 40kHz band - and playing the records with typical elipticals / conicals would basically destroy the carrier band... (it would still play as a normal stereo record though)

That's why they invented Shibata and other line contact styli (well strictly speaking there were earlier designs in line contact, but they went nowhere until the launch of CD4...) - and the high compliance, low effective tip mass exotic cantilevers were also key in reproducing the 40kHz carrier.... but they also resulted in the technology that took vinyl playback to its peak... very very few cartridges today can achieve what the flagship cartridges of most brands were achieving in the late 70's through to the late 80's.

 

[Wiredforsound]

I reme

The common styli at the time could not track the 40kHz band - and playing the records with typical elipticals / conicals would basically destroy the carrier band... (it would still play as a normal stereo record though)

That's why they invented Shibata and other line contact styli (well strictly speaking there were earlier designs in line contact, but they went nowhere until the launch of CD4...) - and the high compliance, low effective tip mass exotic cantilevers were also key in reproducing the 40kHz carrier.... but they also resulted in the technology that took vinyl playback to its peak... very very few cartridges today can achieve what the flagship cartridges of most brands were achieving in the late 70's through to the late 80's.

Not to mention the lost knowledge of record production.
Brand new records that had never been played from this industry in its prime, or zenith.

 

[Bernard23]

The common styli at the time could not track the 40kHz band - and playing the records with typical elipticals / conicals would basically destroy the carrier band... (it would still play as a normal stereo record though)

That's why they invented Shibata and other line contact styli (well strictly speaking there were earlier designs in line contact, but they went nowhere until the launch of CD4...) - and the high compliance, low effective tip mass exotic cantilevers were also key in reproducing the 40kHz carrier.... but they also resulted in the technology that took vinyl playback to its peak... very very few cartridges today can achieve what the flagship cartridges of most brands were achieving in the late 70's through to the late 80's.

Hence a good reason to use NOS wherever possible or good copies, eg Jico sas stuli on technics bodies work very well. I'm still sceptical that a modern good quality micro line or similar would wear out the audio bandwidth. Would be quite easy to measure it.