The Truth about many "Audiophile" Piano Recordings

[pablolie]

I don't think that's the case, the star is always the star and will take the center focus no matter if it's live or recorded.

I disagree - I can't fully enjoy the performance of the star if it's a completely artificial construct, and a complete orchestra is reduced while the piano becomes a monster instrument spanning the entire stage.

 

[goat76]

I disagree - I can't fully enjoy the performance of the star if it's a completely artificial construct, and a complete orchestra is reduced while the piano becomes a monster instrument spanning the entire stage.

I completely understand that your preferences are more of an ensemble recording approach than a hyper-realistic recording where the goal can be "bigger than life". I like both approaches depending on how good I find the particular recording to be, and as long as there are other aspects I find even more important like a convincing room sound to the recording, I'm usually fine either way.

While we listen to reproduced ordinary stereo recordings something really important is missing, and that is the visual clues. When we can't see the musician's performance in a live setting, the "cocktails effects" kick in and makes us able to focus on a particular musician and his/her instrument or voice. A substitute for that missing visual clues can sometimes be a more hyper-realistic recording approach, like simple stereo and panning effects that make things pop out more, even if that put the listeners in Keith Jarret's lap.

As I said, I also like the ensemble approach, but sometimes those recordings can sound a bit too distant. Microphones simply don't pick up the sounds as we hear them and without visual clues, the recordings can often sound somewhat bland. Stereo reproduction can do many different things, I think it would be boring if everything was recorded the same way.

And... I don't think it's common that Keith Jarret or others like him are telling the studio engineer how much space the piano should have on the recordings. It's more likely the person in the studio who recognize Jarret as the main musician in the band, and therefore makes that instrument the main attraction on the record.

 

[posvibes]

What I have grown to dislike intensely over the last couple of years is the very close miking of rickety piano's whereby the furriness of the hammers add an almost fuzzy guitar effect. It doesn't even seemed to be a "prepared" piano, the wooden hammer keys sounds loose, they rattle woodenly and the music is usually a non-descript minimalism of vapid sentimentality. Spotify seems to have a plethora of like sounding music, pianos, recordings and artists that play this style?

Or perhaps its just me.

 

[Waxx]

What I have grown to dislike intensely over the last couple of years is the very close miking of rickety piano's whereby the furriness of the hammers add an almost fuzzy guitar effect. It doesn't even seemed to be a "prepared" piano, the wooden hammer keys sounds loose, they rattle woodenly and the music is usually a non-descript minimalism of vapid sentimentality. Spotify seems to have a plethora of like sounding music, pianos, recordings and artists that play this style?

Or perhaps its just me.

I got the same, i know how a piano sounds in a room, l had a long relationship with a (amateur) pianiste, who had a Bosendorfer Emperial Grand in her rather big (14x8x3m) living room that (by accident) had good acoustics. And since then i can't enjoy those very close miced recordings as it sounds fake to me. I'm used to hear the piano in a room as i heared her playing live for hours like that.

And I also assisted in some recordings of classical (grand) piano in big concert halls, which doesn't help neighter. There we used the combination of room mics (+90% of the sound) and close micing (to fill in the sound) that were parallel compressed to give more body to the recording. That looks like the best method to me. At least for classical and most jazz recordings. Because some music styles ask for an other sound, so an other way of recording the piano.

 

[Byrdsmaniac]

It is not famous to the general public, but it is known in the music industry as a recording venue. I recently noticed that Hilary Hahn's first Bach album was recorded there.

View attachment 220558

I saw Hilary Hahn in recital with Corey Smythe at the Troy Music Hall in 2014. It was one of the most transcendent concerts I have ever attended. The hall has superb acoustics. My wife and I saw Box Scaggs there in 2018. That kind of music also sounded really good.

 

[telemike]

Piano Recording

Recording a real piano can feel like a lost art, given the number of high-quality sample libraries around these days. For those times when only the real thing will suffice, here's how to do it justice.

www.soundonsound.com

 

[telemike]

Recording Piano | Discover How With This Simple Guide

If you’re recording piano in your home studio, use these simple tips & techniques to capture a full & wide sound. Always start with great recordings.

www.practical-music-production.com

 

[Robin L]

Piano Recording

Recording a real piano can feel like a lost art, given the number of high-quality sample libraries around these days. For those times when only the real thing will suffice, here's how to do it justice.

www.soundonsound.com

Lots of useful info. I would use an omni pair of Neuman 130s spaced slightly wider than 45 cm, about a foot higher than the keyboard for my best recordings. No hole in the middle.

 

[AlephAlpha001]

Has anyone heard Dick Hyman -- An Evening at the Cookery? Apparently he walked into a gig with a cassette recorder on June 17, 1973 and recorded himself. An example of how not to record piano -- but still wow.

 

[dualazmak]

I have been really fascinated with this video recording of Andras Schiff playing Bach Overture and Suites in French Style in B Minor BWV831. The recording quality is also amazing, but I do not see microphone(s) at least in the video image. Can anyone here guess or know the recording technology, engineering (and microphone settings) in this world-music-heritage (IMO) performance and recording?

 

[goat76]

I have been really fascinated with this video recording of Andras Schiff playing Bach Overture and Suites in French Style in B Minor BWV831. The recording quality is also amazing, but I do not see microphone(s) at least in the video image. Can any one here guess or know the recording technology, engineering (and microphone settings) in this world-music-heritage (IMO) performance and recording?

I have spotted at least two microphones in the ceiling, there are probably more microphones outside the camera angles.

 

[Robin L]

I have spotted at least two microphones in the ceiling, there are probably more microphones outside the camera angles.

View attachment 222717

Hard to see, but I do see what might be a SDC inside the soundboard on the treble side.

 

[Waxx]

This is indeed typically done with room mics hanging from the ceiling, sometimes with close mics when there is a big orchestra also (when they are to loud), but a piano should sound like the public hears it is the general concensus in the classical world. And for piano that is from a disctance with the soundboard set open. That is why distance mic'ing is often the most important part, if not the only part, of a recording. It also depends on the acoustics of the venue and how diciplined the public is off course...

 

[Waxx]

Hard to see, but I do see what might be a SDC inside the soundboard on the treble side.

that is a shadow, when you look at the video fully you will see there is no microphone there.

 

[LeftCoastTim]

Here is a potato quality video of a 15 year old kid playing the piano. I will take this over any "audiophile" piano recording any day of the year. Cheers.

 

[Robin L]

that is a shadow, when you look at the video fully you will see there is no microphone there.

View attachment 222751

Like I said, it's hard to see. I'm not seeing it on this video grab but do see it in the screen grab with the overhead photos of suspended microphones. Whatever is going on involved microphones much closer to the strings than the overhead pickup.

 

[Waxx]

Like I said, it's hard to see. I'm not seeing it on this video grab but do see it in the screen grab with the overhead photos of suspended microphones. Whatever is going on involved microphones much closer to the strings than the overhead pickup.

I think it's not, and I assisted in quiet a few classical piano recordings in my younger years (that's how i learned to appreciate classical music as a punk). But if you can point the microphone that proofs me wrong, do it. But the sound is very typical for a room recording in a good acoustic setting and with cardioid capsules on schoeps cmc microphones from a distance. Close miced would have at least a bit of very subtile mechanical sounds in it, this has absolutly not.

 

[goat76]

The investigation goes on, and the plot thickens...

What about these two objects, they sure look like microphones, or are they parts of the piano?

 

[Robin L]

that is a shadow, when you look at the video fully you will see there is no microphone there.

View attachment 222751

I looked again---probably the bulk of the sound is coming from overheads, but I saw what looked like a Schoeps cardioid hiding among the hardware on keyboard right side.

Can't help but note that the size of the venue is about the same as Maybeck Recital Hall in Berkeley California. The audience has a similar approach to dressing for a concert. I recorded there quite a few times, it was about the ideal size for a piano recital. I've heard/seen the microphone set-up Concord Jazz used for recordings there, this doesn't sound or look like that, so you're probably right about a more distant pick-up. I usually used a modified ORTF pair when recording recitals there. But the treble is juiced up enough to suggest a little bit of help from a closer pick up. Whatever process is involved, the video does a great job of hiding the microphones from view. Maybe the video does too good of a job of showing us Mr. Schiff's face. Fortunately, he's not a hummer.

 

[dualazmak]

Hi all,

Really interesting "investigation" is going on for mic setting(s) for this nice video of Andras Schiff's amazing performance of Bach. It looks we need to identify the recording engineer of this video in order to find "the secret" of this wonderful recording...

BTW, what would be your subjective impressions of the total sound quality as well as your subjective music preferences for this "world-music-heritage" (IMO) performance, if you are non-hesitant to classical music especially JS Bach. At least for me, this is one of my most favorite and exciting "audiophile" piano recordings.

I used to stick to Glenn Gould's wonderful performance of BWV831 for the long period, but now this Schiff's BWV831 occupies the top position on my preference list (having 11 performances by various pianists in my library) for BWV831.