I have seen that picture before somewhere?
Let me see if I can talk David Gilmour into recording with one.
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The Truth about many "Audiophile" Piano Recordings
- Thread starter pablolie
- Start date
Let me see if I can talk David Gilmour into recording with one.
Waxx
Major Contributor
A lot of instruments relay on resonances to make their typical sound, the Lute and it's historical precestor, the probally 5000 but certainly +3000 years old Oed are typcical in that. Many sculptures and fresco's in Irianian, Semitic (Arab) and Indian cultures show those instruments. It was originally made from a half pumpkin with a fishskin or a thin animal skin stretched over it and a wooden neck. It had 3 to 5 strings depending on the variation, that all excited the animal skin to resonate. The modern (since 500BC) variation was fully made of wood, and has changed little since then. It's still a key instrument in Arabic or Iranian (as etnic) and even Indian culture. The european lute (and so all kind of guitars) decent from this instrument.
This is a modern copy of that old variation with the animal skin front; that is still used by some Iranian tribes in close to original form in Uzbekistan ao places. Those mostly have 6 strings now. The bottom side of the body is only covered with a animal skin like a drum. A bit like a Banjo (that is also based on that instrument).
And many string instruments, being fiddled or picked, relay on resonances of the body to make their typical sound Even the modern acoustic guitars do.
This is a modern copy of that old variation with the animal skin front; that is still used by some Iranian tribes in close to original form in Uzbekistan ao places. Those mostly have 6 strings now. The bottom side of the body is only covered with a animal skin like a drum. A bit like a Banjo (that is also based on that instrument).
And many string instruments, being fiddled or picked, relay on resonances of the body to make their typical sound Even the modern acoustic guitars do.
If the extra keys were truly not intended to be played, they could have simply put in extra strings and not add keys for them. I'll bet Bosendorfer was hoping that people would begin writing music that utilize the extra low notes.
My problem isn't helped by the number of keys. My grand piano is about 140 years old and it only has 84 keys--seven octaves--leaving off the top four. That was the standard of the day. It was also tuned to "international pitch"--A=425Hz. I, with non-trivial risk, had it tuned to A=440 and learned how to provide basic service. I had to reconstruct the pedal frame and repair one damaged leg, and I also had to refinished the piano, which is made from naturally finished Cuban mahogany. My wife plays it and I dink around on it from time to time. Back in the day, I attempted to learn it and even took lessons as a child, but I never developed the necessary hand independence and my brain just works too slowly. I used to be able to accompany groups from the guitar chord charts and lead sheets, but I'm pretty out of practice with that, too. Too bad--my hands are large and I can span an octave and a third, which is an advantage. The tuba with its particular repertoire, single-voice music, and (mostly) right-handed operation was my musical salvation.Well if you don't "play" them, how can you add overtones?
LOL Just teasing ya Rick.
And you still didn't answer my question. ;:
I can barely handle the basic 88 after 3 1/2 years of practice.
I still enjoy an hour or so on the bench most every day but being honest I'm having a hard time keeping
up my enthusiasm knowing I'll most likely never reach the level I'd hoped for..
Don't get old my Pop always told me.
Rick "strings ring even when not struck" Denney
Well, that's the story--the original design intended to provide access to pedal-register notes for organ transcriptions. Several composers did write for it. But that music is not played often enough to justify its purchase just for that purpose. But the tone produced by the 290 has, in my hearing, all the qualities ascribed to it. If I was wealthy and could afford any piano (along with the room that would accommodate it--the 290 is four inches short of ten feet long), that's what I would own. Then, I would invite pianists with actual skills to come entertain me. LOL.
Rick "whose 6-1/2-foot grand piano barely fits in the room" Denney
By the way, you were talking about notations of C-major designations that are lifted a semitone (sharps) or lowered a semitone (flats). Your interlocutor was talking about intonation--pitch accuracy being high (sharp) or low (flat), and not suggesting that 88-key pianos are tune such that the non-C-major notes assigned to white keys. I was trying to bridge the two ships passing in the night.
Of course, I do know a fellow who took a Fender Rhodes electric piano and tuned it to quarter tones for playing Middle-Eastern repertoire, so there's that.
Rick "forget one-handed octaves on that one" Denney
This is all I have that's accessible at the moment:
It's terribly messy around where I practice the tuba, especially when several of the instruments that normally rest in the basement are up for exercise. I can fit three tubas in their cases under the piano. I call it acoustic room treatment. That side of the piano is the only first-reflective surface there is between my Revel F12's and the listening position.
The case shape was a standard shape for the Hazelton Brothers maker back before they were bought by a large upright-piano maker during the upright piano boom. That occurred in 1896 give or take a year. This piano was made in 1885. The only hint that it is a Victorian-era piano is the sharp corner where the side turns to the bend. Hazelton Brothers was a small and fairly obscure piano maker in New York that was reasonably well-known and respected. It was a solid maker but not in the class of Steinway or the major German/Austrian makers of the day. I bought it from a very old church in Fort Worth 32 years ago--they had used it since new but had received a gift of a Yamaha Conservatory Grade concert grand and this one became surplus to their needs. I refinished it, made repairs, painted the legs black (in Victorian style), and went through the action (which I need to do again). The action is pretty loose--any classical pianist would think it imprecise and a bit sluggish with a slow repeat compared to a modern Renner action. But it is pretty easy to pull the action and work on it. The soundboard is not perfect but it sounds pretty good. It certainly does not sound like an "old" piano. It's 76" and a pretty good size for a normal-sized house. It is NOT to be confused with a modern-era furniture-grade piano.
Come to think of it, I have a picture of it with my collection of tubas from about 25 years ago (the collection is entirely different now except for the second tuba from the left, which I still have--all the other have gone on to new homes). This photo was my previous house, right after I moved to Virginia. That house was bigger in spots, and I took over the dining room for housing the piano.
Rick "yes, the wife cast a greedy eye on the top of the piano, but it's good for pianos to leave the lid down anyway, in spite of interior designer tastes" Denney
It's terribly messy around where I practice the tuba, especially when several of the instruments that normally rest in the basement are up for exercise. I can fit three tubas in their cases under the piano. I call it acoustic room treatment. That side of the piano is the only first-reflective surface there is between my Revel F12's and the listening position.
The case shape was a standard shape for the Hazelton Brothers maker back before they were bought by a large upright-piano maker during the upright piano boom. That occurred in 1896 give or take a year. This piano was made in 1885. The only hint that it is a Victorian-era piano is the sharp corner where the side turns to the bend. Hazelton Brothers was a small and fairly obscure piano maker in New York that was reasonably well-known and respected. It was a solid maker but not in the class of Steinway or the major German/Austrian makers of the day. I bought it from a very old church in Fort Worth 32 years ago--they had used it since new but had received a gift of a Yamaha Conservatory Grade concert grand and this one became surplus to their needs. I refinished it, made repairs, painted the legs black (in Victorian style), and went through the action (which I need to do again). The action is pretty loose--any classical pianist would think it imprecise and a bit sluggish with a slow repeat compared to a modern Renner action. But it is pretty easy to pull the action and work on it. The soundboard is not perfect but it sounds pretty good. It certainly does not sound like an "old" piano. It's 76" and a pretty good size for a normal-sized house. It is NOT to be confused with a modern-era furniture-grade piano.
Come to think of it, I have a picture of it with my collection of tubas from about 25 years ago (the collection is entirely different now except for the second tuba from the left, which I still have--all the other have gone on to new homes). This photo was my previous house, right after I moved to Virginia. That house was bigger in spots, and I took over the dining room for housing the piano.
Rick "yes, the wife cast a greedy eye on the top of the piano, but it's good for pianos to leave the lid down anyway, in spite of interior designer tastes" Denney
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1827 , seriously? I should look so good at 198 !!!
That’s what he says. And he restores them, so might make sense.
The wood finish on that side panel looks beautiful !
You could have fooled me LOL
I find it amazing that instruments this old are still around and playing. A lot of LOVE must have went into the original builds.
Enjoy them both guys, that to me is incredible !!!
JohnnyAudio
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This is the spectrum of a Bösendorfer Imperial grand low C that I recorded a while back with a stereo ribbon mic. I can't remember the distance away from the piano but it would have been fairly close. Down at 20Hz equipment limitations are a factor. For example the AEA R88 microphone that was used here is "only" spec'd down to 20Hz.
It is remarkable to me how many resonances are created by the single note.
Keenly awaiting another wonderful example of piano recording width!
It is remarkable to me how many resonances are created by the single note.
Keenly awaiting another wonderful example of piano recording width!
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JohnnyAudio
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JohnnyAudio
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By low C do you mean C two octaves below middle C, the lowest note of the cello?
danadam
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From the context of the discussion and from the distance between the harmonics, it's C0, 4 octaves below middle C.
Young Little Richard
@MickeyBoy
I was originally thinking I could show whether the extra keys do actually add lower resonances when playing a regular note as that seems to be the primary reason for having them.
This is the only sole note recording I have of the Böse imperial, the rest of the recording has more complex harmonics from multiple notes and I couldn’t find another clean looking example..
In the end I just thought what I had looked interesting.
This is correct.
I was originally thinking I could show whether the extra keys do actually add lower resonances when playing a regular note as that seems to be the primary reason for having them.
This is the only sole note recording I have of the Böse imperial, the rest of the recording has more complex harmonics from multiple notes and I couldn’t find another clean looking example..
In the end I just thought what I had looked interesting.
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