The Truth about many "Audiophile" Piano Recordings

[pablolie]

...
(PS I don't like this pianist who I heard in public and who acts more as a clever person than he is really interesting when he is not helped by the spells of the sound engineers who create a discographic sound that 'he is not in a concert hall where suddenly his playing becomes banal and ordinary.)

I see him as a new age artist more than a classic piano player, although he has his moments as the latter (I like his Philip Glass, it suits him).
I would never go to a concert where he plays new age stuff and charges $500 a seat to put to me sleep... :-D (although I treasure sleeping well these days).

And his (or his collaborators') rearrangements can go totally astray, as sometimes happens with the Deutsche Grammophon "Re-Composed" series, which has gone for "Decomposed" several times (Matthew Herbert's Mahler is downright repugnant).

But I enjoy being challenged, and I definitely enjoy well-made crossovers between classical and new age. But this certainly isn't it... :-D

 

[Sal1950]

This reminds me of a funny story when Nick Cave wanted a piano he fell in love with during the recording of the album "Idiot Prayer", it was a relatively small Italian manufacturer named Fazioli.

I bet there would have been a different reaction if he said,
"my name is Elton John".

How many did you want sir?

 

[pablolie]

I bet there would have been a different reaction if he said,
"my name is Elton John".

How many did you want sir?

"And what color"? :-D

 

[Haskil]

I'm sure they get at least an "insider pricing" like big name reviewers get when buying gear.
There are just too many advantages for the manufacturers when the name is big enough not to try and
sway them. Money talks and BS walks, always been, always will be. LOL

The sentence which immediately followed the quote you made of my remarks says this which you forgot: The piano maker gives them a reduction, the one he gives to his dealers, but the pianists pay for their instrument.

 

[Haskil]

I wonder if you knew Joseph Spencer? He had a company that would transport pianos (usually Steinways, as I recall) to recording studios. He would tune and otherwise adjust the instruments. Was active in the 1960s and 1970s, clients included the Rolling Stones and Vladimir Horowitz. Actually, was more interested in harpsichords and Baroque tunings.

No. On the other hand, I know Denis de Winters well, who accompanied Bolet throughout Europe, as well as Keith Jarret and Krtztian Zimerman, who very often tunes the pianos of Martha Argerich and many others. He is an old friend and I must say that the portrait he paints of KJ and KZ is quite depressing... on the other hand, he is also admiring of the people Bolet, Argerich, Freire, Lugansky, Queffelec, Volodos , Angelich and a few others.

 

[Sal1950]

The sentence which immediately followed the quote you made of my remarks says this which you forgot: The piano maker gives them a reduction, the one he gives to his dealers, but the pianists pay for their instrument.

I'm sure there's no hard and fast rules, it depends on who the customer really is, what the companys policies are, and how good sales have been this year.

 

[Andysu]

is that aiwa loudspeakers a little bit low tech for audiophiles

 

[Haskil]

I'm sure there's no hard and fast rules, it depends on who the customer really is, what the companys policies are, and how good sales have been this year.

Given the reduced margin that even the most famous manufacturers make on these instruments - Steinway is no longer independent and changes ownership according to the vagaries of pension funds, Bosendorfer belongs to Yamaha which saved it from bankruptcy and earns from money with many things other than concert pianos.
For example, the little story told above about Fazioli is clear on this subject. Fazioli is a very small manufacturer whose very prestigious production does not allow it to offer pianos to artists without jeopardizing its existence.
We know that at the time of their splendor the great makers deposited pianos with Chopin or Liszt because it was a form of advertising for them, we also know that Horowitz's Steinway was a long-term loan from Steinway but it must to be the last to whom this postman gave this gift recovered after the death of the pianist...
In any case, all the professional pianists I know have paid for their instrument... and moreover often have old horses back home to work, with some exceptions. But see Freire and Argerich who are famous pianists in the field of classical music, have their grand piano paid for with their money.

 

[EJ3]

is that aiwa loudspeakers a little bit low tech for audiophiles

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I was simply letting people hear what they can out of this recital. The speakers (to me, anyway) are irrelevant.

 

[Robin L]

is that aiwa loudspeakers a little bit low tech for audiophiles

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Sometimes a performer has a fantastic musical instrument and little interest in audio reproduction in the home. They might be concerned with the quality of the recording of said instrument, but more of their resources go to the instruments themselves than in audio reproduction in their home. Makes sense to me - if one has a super instrument, any electronic replay of that instrument will pale in comparison. I've been witness to this more than once, where there's a beautiful reproduction of a French double harpsichord in the same room as an all-in-one, all plastic CD system in the corner of that room. These people will be spending far more time playing/rehearsing/practicing than listening to recordings.

 

[Sal1950]

These people will be spending far more time playing/rehearsing/practicing than listening to recordings.

Absolutely. I don't know a single musician that owns a home HiFi half as good as the average ASR member.
There may be some highly successful artists that can and do afford to hire the High End Hi Fi or Home Theater design firms, I just
don't know any. As a rule, musicians just don't give a damn about Hi-Fi.
We can kick these facts around all day but in the end, not learn a damn thing about Home Hi-Fi. The musicians just don't give a damn
about it in the way we do.
They love to play, we love to listen to them play, pretty easy to figure out.

 

[pablolie]

Absolutely. I don't know a single musician that owns a home HiFi half as good as the average ASR member.
There may be some highly successful artists that can and do afford to hire the High End Hi Fi or Home Theater design firms, I just
don't know any. As a rule, musicians just don't give a damn about Hi-Fi.
We can kick these facts around all day but in the end, not learn a damn thing about Home Hi-Fi. The musicians just don't give a damn
about it in the way we do.
They love to play, we love to listen to them play, pretty easy to figure out.

My GF is a very accomplished musician. That said she had zero interest in stereo systems. But during one of our first dates, she started to ask me a lot of questions as we were listening to music on my system. She is super judgmental about some artists by default, and hearing them in higher def just amplifies that, so there's stuff I don't play at all when she's around because she'll go "oh so sloppy" and such and I don't want to deal with that. I never listen to music I hate, so don't want to put her through that - listening should be fun.

 

[Robin L]

Absolutely. I don't know a single musician that owns a home HiFi half as good as the average ASR member.
There may be some highly successful artists that can and do afford to hire the High End Hi Fi or Home Theater design firms, I just
don't know any. As a rule, musicians just don't give a damn about Hi-Fi.
We can kick these facts around all day but in the end, not learn a damn thing about Home Hi-Fi. The musicians just don't give a damn
about it in the way we do.
They love to play, we love to listen to them play, pretty easy to figure out.

I've known musicians in the Classical Music community who were involved in High-End audio, it's not some hard and fast rule. And some musicians became recording engineers (or recordists, as only two I've known has an Engineering degree) so naturally they became concerned with the things folks in the high-end community were involved with. However, those folks were less likely to be snared by audiofoolery than a lot of folks in the high-end community.

 

[pablolie]

I've known musicians in the Classical Music community who were involved in High-End audio...

Karajan for one was fanatical -as he was with many things- about his and his beloved Berliners' recording quality. And he is famous for being deeply involved in the development/approval/marketing of CD tech.

 

[Robin L]

Karajan for one was fanatical -as he was with many things- about his and his beloved Berliners' recording quality. And he is famous for being deeply involved in the development/approval/marketing of CD tech.

And Leopold Stokowski was involved in the very early development of multi-channel sound, both stereo in the 1930s and surround in the 1940s.
Glenn Gould was both particular and peculiar about the sound of his own recordings.

 

[pablolie]

...
Glenn Gould was both particular and peculiar about the sound of his own recordings.

Indeed he was - he may have started to 30ft piano trend that triggered my initial post here, and may have also inspired Keith Jarrett to vocalize during recordings... :-D

 

[beefkabob]

I've been to too many piano performances because of my son and a family friend's son. It always just feels like a wall of sound when I'm in the audience. Piano and orchestra? Wall of sound. Recordings? Wall of sound. Maybe I'm just not into it?

 

[Robin L]

I've been to too many piano performances because of my son and a family friend's son. It always just feels like a wall of sound when I'm in the audience. Piano and orchestra? Wall of sound. Recordings? Wall of sound. Maybe I'm just not into it?

Maybe not.
I listen to many hours of piano recordings every week, have since I was a teenager. The audience perspective of a piano in a good sized hall lacks the focus of a good piano recording. And, of course, one has to love the repertoire to fully embrace that kind of music. Most of the really good seats for that sort of music cost a lot. In any case, there are plenty of forms of popular music that are just a wall of noise to me. We are not required to love all forms of music.

 

[Sal1950]

I've known musicians in the Classical Music community who were involved in High-End audio, it's not some hard and fast rule.

The only hard and fast rule is death. When your dead, your dead!

 

[pablolie]

I've been to too many piano performances because of my son and a family friend's son. It always just feels like a wall of sound when I'm in the audience. Piano and orchestra? Wall of sound. Recordings? Wall of sound. Maybe I'm just not into it?

To a certain degree, I utterly understand where you come from
I am neither a gifted musicians nor am I an accomplished recording engineer (like many that answer to this topic), so just had a hobbyist link when I started this topic.
I also most enthusiastically agree that not all live performances set a standard we should worship as an audio standard shrine (the very notion is actually laughable to me). I have been to many pathetically bad live performances for reasons that range from room acoustics to bad seating position to an annoyingly loud audience to just -of course- the performers not being at their best.
And of course the recordings are all over the place too. Close microphones, floating ones, close mixes, room authentic acoustics... pick you poison.

And this is for top professionals, just for a start.