The Truth about many "Audiophile" Piano Recordings

[Waxx]

The investigation goes on, and the plot thickens...

What about these two objects, they sure look like microphones, or are they parts of the piano?

View attachment 222767

The left one could be a microphone, but it's strange that there is no cable coming out that goes over the border of the piano. The right one is to small to be a microphone i think, but i could be wrong. It also looks a bit rare, the only microphone i could think of that it could be is a Schoeps CCM series, and those are all wired microphone, so it should have a cable going out. And it's also strange position to put such a microphone as it will get a lot of mechanical toucing noise from the hammers and so leaning on that brace in the piano body and will mainly give treble notes in the recording (the bass notes is on the other side). They normally put it on an ugly stand for a reason as they are very sensitive and need to be higher to catch the whole piano. Even touching the stand gives disturbance with those.

 

[mSpot]

I have been really fascinated with this video recording of Andras Schiff playing Bach Overture and Suites in French Style in B Minor BWV831. The recording quality is also amazing, but I do not see microphone(s) at least in the video image. Can anyone here guess or know the recording technology, engineering (and microphone settings) in this world-music-heritage (IMO) performance and recording?

I'm surprised nobody mentioned this, but the YouTube description says the performance was from Bachfest Leipzig 11.06.2010 and has a link to a playlist that I presume was the complete recital, which also included all 6 French Suites and the Italian Concerto. There is also an interview with Schiff and the venue was the Protestant Reformed Church of Leipzig.

Now you have an additional hour of video to search for microphones.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhIP1CNbYhVObXv7ByHmE5oETjj6RXyAN

Wait, there's more!
The concert was filmed and released by EuroArts, and available from various sources including Apple Music:
https://music.apple.com/ag/album/andrás-schiff-plays-bach-live-from-bachfest-2010-visual/1595036780
It is probably the entire performance including pauses and breaks. I'm not an Apple subscriber but I can watch previews, including opening and closing credits.

 

[dualazmak]

Hi @mSpot,

Thank you indeed for further info...

I just also found that the recital recording is also available in physical DVD and Blu-Ray Disc at EuroArts site. I will be sure to purchase it very soon, and I hope I could find recording/engineering information in the liner notes for the physical discs.

 

[goat76]

Hi @mSpot,

Thank you indeed for further info...

I just also found that the recital recording is also available in physical DVD and Blu-Ray Disc at EuroArts site. I will be sure to purchase it very soon, and I hope I could find recording/engineering information in the liner notes for the physical discs.

Yesterday when I tried to figure out what types of microphones were used for the recording, I stumbled across the name István Berényi, a Hungarian recording engineer. I'm not 100% sure he's the man behind this, but if so, he got a lot of recordings under his belt if you take a look at Discogs.

István Berényi

Explore the discography of István Berényi. Shop for vinyl, CDs, and more from István Berényi on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

 

[dualazmak]

Now you have an additional hour of video to search for microphones.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhIP1CNbYhVObXv7ByHmE5oETjj6RXyAN

I listened and fully enjoyed whole of the YouTube clips several times; the performance and the recording/sound quality are amazingly wonderful, even though I could not find the microphones in the video images... Again, I believe this Bachfest concert in Leipzig by Andras Schiff is a kind of "World Music Heritage", indeed.

I stumbled across the name István Berényi, a Hungarian recording engineer. I'm not 100% sure he's the man behind this, but if so, he got a lot of recordings under his belt if you take a look at Discogs.

Thank you for your further investigation! As I became rather busy on my daily work because of the BA.5 and BA.2.75 variants of COVID-19 virus in Japan, I would highly appreciate if you could share your further investigation on identification of the microphones and the recording settings/techniques.

 

[dualazmak]

Are these microphones??

Edit: These object images are the same as @goat76 kindly posted in #181 above!

 

[Blumlein 88]

Are these microphones??
View attachment 223200

I don't know the picture isn't clear enough. If you look thru the rest of the video you can find shots just outside the same area and it looks like some sort of connector on the surface of the piano there. Maybe it is inductive or something or maybe they've done this for recording (which seems unlikely).

 

[Jim Shaw]

While y'all play hide the chalupas, I am recalling a piano recording workshop I saw in U. of Michigan once. One of the examples of playback was recorded with two PZM microphones on the inside of the lid. It was played last, after examples of perhaps a half dozen placements of conventional varieties of high-quality microphones. The astonishing thing was that it sounded terrific, even to very critical ears. All of the case/soundboard/string sounds were well balanced. The music was Schumann, the piano a Steinway 7. The piano lid was open on the short prop. No other mics were used for that take.

These guys were uniformly critical listeners and engineers. And uniformly amazed.
<chuckle> "So, that's how Elton John does it?"

 

[dualazmak]

PZM microphone or Boundary microphone?
I am just looking at Wiki;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundary_microphone

Interesting to read this portion; "Since one of the benefits of boundary microphones is that they are less visually obtrusive, they may be available in several colors, to enable audio engineers to select the color that will blend best with the surface they will be placed on or mounted on, in order to further reduce the mic's visual obtrusiveness. Some boundary mics come with a paint mask to facilitate the custom painting of the housing. Custom painting can be used to provide an exact color match with a wall, in cases where the building architects wish there to be minimal visual impact (e.g. a historical church or a Classical music stage)."

 

[Jim Shaw]

PZM microphone or Boundary microphone?

In my experience, PZM (Pressure Zone Mic) and 'boundary layer' mic are essentially the same - just different terms.

Here's one:

PZM30 D | High-performance hemispherical boundary layer microphone

The PZM30 D high-performance hemispherical boundary layer microphone is a Pressure Zone Microphone® designed for professional recording, sound reinforcement and broadcasting. The PZM30 D comes in a very rugged, low-profile, metal housing with detachable cable that makes it sturdy and reliable...

www.akg.com

 

[dualazmak]

Now you have an additional hour of video to search for microphones.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhIP1CNbYhVObXv7ByHmE5oETjj6RXyAN

I have been much enjoying all of the video clips during the past several days, and it will be certainly continued for the coming days or weeks!

BTW, I found and heard unpleasant low Fq (about 25 Hz - 45 Hz) rather high-level noise (due to some air conditioning problems?) at 6 min 30 sec - 7 min 15 sec in French Suite No.5 in G major BWV816. I confirmed the noise by analyzing with Adobe Audition;

The noise would be no problem now for me since I can flexibly control (even on-the-fly) my sub-woofer (SW) low-cut (high-pass) XO Fq and/or SW gain controls in software DSP "EKIO".

And using Adobe Audition's flexible sound editing functionalities, I could efficiently level-down (or erase) the noise portion, and save the edited audio track replacing the original one.

 

[Berlin]

I just came across the album "All of You" by Ahmad Jamal. It is a live recording from the 60's with a nice piano...

https://play.qobuz.com/album/dy9ggplohxckc

 

[Sokel]

Are these microphones??
View attachment 223200

Edit: These object images are the same as @goat76 kindly posted in #181 above!

I do not know what these are but I can tell you with 100% confidence that is NOT part of the piano.

Edit:
Definitely Mic: