The treble on the Sennheiser HD660 S is just .... wrong

[garageband]

Sennheiser is marketing the 660 S as the successor to the 650. Wait.... what? Sure, the driver gives you perhaps 5-10% more detail retireval if you really sit there and critically listen and it's slighty faster but at what cost? The treble is grainy and the sound has this edge to it that's not there on the 600 and 650. The 660 S has the thick sound of the 650 but with itchy treble. This is jarring.

The recessed upper mids compared to the others in the 6X0 line make the grainy treble even more apparant. I fail to see how this headphone is a successor to the smooth sound of the 650. The 660 S isn't even a successor the 600.

What a strange product from Sennheiser. It's bizzarre how it's twice the price of the 6XX. Why do you guys think Sennheiser is going in this direction?

 

[AdamG]

Sennheiser is marketing the 660 S as the successor to the 650. Wait.... what? Sure, the driver gives you perhaps 5-10% more detail retireval if you really sit there and critically listen and it's slighty faster but at what cost? The treble is grainy and the sound has this edge to it that's not there on the 600 and 650. The 660 S has the thick sound of the 650 but with itchy treble. This is jarring.

The recessed upper mids compared to the others in the 6X0 line make the grainy treble even more apparant. I fail to see how this headphone is a successor to the smooth sound of the 650. The 660 S isn't even a successor the 600.

What a strange product from Sennheiser. It's bizzarre how it's twice the price of the 6XX. Why do you guys think Sennheiser is going in this direction?

Welcome Aboard @garageband.

 

[thomasjast]

Sennheiser is marketing the 660 S as the successor to the 650. Wait.... what? Sure, the driver gives you perhaps 5-10% more detail retireval if you really sit there and critically listen and it's slighty faster but at what cost? The treble is grainy and the sound has this edge to it that's not there on the 600 and 650. The 660 S has the thick sound of the 650 but with itchy treble. This is jarring.

The recessed upper mids compared to the others in the 6X0 line make the grainy treble even more apparant. I fail to see how this headphone is a successor to the smooth sound of the 650. The 660 S isn't even a successor the 600.

What a strange product from Sennheiser. It's bizzarre how it's twice the price of the 6XX. Why do you guys think Sennheiser is going in this direction?

I just keep going to my 6XX headphones despite hearing so many others. They're just plain excellent at any price.

 

[silentt29]

Would love to see an Amir review on the HD6XX headphones. I've heard plenty about them.

 

[AdamG]

Would love to see an Amir review on the HD6XX headphones. I've heard plenty about them.

I just got a new set of the Drop 6XX Sennheiser headphones. I like them but have no measurements. I will consider sending them to @amirm for testing when he has an opportunity to fit them in his schedule. @amirm just let me know when?

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Would love to see an Amir review on the HD6XX headphones. I've heard plenty about them.

There is a review for the HD650 and the HD6XX use the same driver and tuning so they are almost identical.

Regarding the HD660s I don't hear anything bothersome at any frequency. When I use them I usually EQ some more bass, but I'm quite satisfied with the tonality. I also don't see anything striking in the FR graph on Crinacle's website.

 

[Vini darko]

Sennheiser is marketing the 660 S as the successor to the 650. Wait.... what? Sure, the driver gives you perhaps 5-10% more detail retireval if you really sit there and critically listen and it's slighty faster but at what cost? The treble is grainy and the sound has this edge to it that's not there on the 600 and 650. The 660 S has the thick sound of the 650 but with itchy treble. This is jarring.

The recessed upper mids compared to the others in the 6X0 line make the grainy treble even more apparant. I fail to see how this headphone is a successor to the smooth sound of the 650. The 660 S isn't even a successor the 600.

What a strange product from Sennheiser. It's bizzarre how it's twice the price of the 6XX. Why do you guys think Sennheiser is going in this direction?

Itchy treble???? That's a new one to me.

 

[raistlin65]

Sennheiser is marketing the 660 S as the successor to the 650. Wait.... what? Sure, the driver gives you perhaps 5-10% more detail retireval if you really sit there and critically listen and it's slighty faster but at what cost? The treble is grainy and the sound has this edge to it that's not there on the 600 and 650. The 660 S has the thick sound of the 650 but with itchy treble. This is jarring.

The recessed upper mids compared to the others in the 6X0 line make the grainy treble even more apparant. I fail to see how this headphone is a successor to the smooth sound of the 650. The 660 S isn't even a successor the 600.

What a strange product from Sennheiser. It's bizzarre how it's twice the price of the 6XX. Why do you guys think Sennheiser is going in this direction?

I don't think the HD660S was intended to be a successor to the HD650. Nor the HD650 to the HD600.

However, I do think if you're very used to the HD650 sound it could take a lot of brain burn in to adjust to the HD660S. Otherwise, your brain could be reverting to how it hears the HD650.

That being said, not every headphone is for everybody. And that's okay.

 

[solderdude]

Why do you guys think Sennheiser is going in this direction?

The R&D department has been developping new drivers based on another platform and is convinced it does some things better.
There is indeed a 6kHz peak there. It was worst on the HD700 driver and proto HD58X and, fortunately, lowered that and extended lows on the production model. You can EQ it out and treble 'smooths' but is less pronounced as HD650. Most find the HD650 to lack treble. It doesn't, it is well extended even but more on the level of speakers in a room.

 

[garageband]

Jude from Head-Fi did an in interview with the two brothers who run Sennheiser and they said they're changing direction as a company to a consumer focused, which makes their partnership with Drop make a lot of sense. It's clear that they haven't been allocating much resources to the audiophile line of headphones the last decade and it shows. Sennheiser has a respectable legacy but the 660 S is just a cash grab.

The R&D department has been developping new drivers based on another platform and is convinced it does some things better.
There is indeed a 6kHz peak there. It was worst on the HD700 driver and proto HD58X and, fortunately, lowered that and extended lows on the production model. You can EQ it out and treble 'smooths' but is less pronounced as HD650. Most find the HD650 to lack treble. It doesn't, it is well extended even but more on the level of speakers in a room.

 

[solderdude]

Overpriced... yes. I think it should be $ 50.- more expensive than HD650 because of the added cables.
Cashgrab... don't know. I don't think it sounds bad. To me a more 'modern' sounding HD650. HD650 more 'woolly' and 'smoother' in the treble.
Of course there are plenty of folks that are very used to their HD650 and expecting a to them improved HD650 but finding something that just does things differently. Just like the HD600 differs somewhat and the HD58X differs somewhat.
There are haters and lovers for every headphone in existence.

regarding the thread title... I agree somewhat. Treble is a bit off and not as smooth as HD650. A little EQ solves it but upper mids are a bit more subdued in the HD660 making it less 'clear'. The 6kHz needs to be dealt with IMO (shave off 2.5dB there)

Ignore the 'dip' between 1.5kHz and 6kHz it is because the measurement is pinna less so the actual trace should about 2-3 dB higher around 3kHz.

 

[Robin L]

The R&D department has been developping new drivers based on another platform and is convinced it does some things better.
There is indeed a 6kHz peak there. It was worst on the HD700 driver and proto HD58X and, fortunately, lowered that and extended lows on the production model. You can EQ it out and treble 'smooths' but is less pronounced as HD650. Most find the HD650 to lack treble. It doesn't, it is well extended even but more on the level of speakers in a room.

I think one of the elements that makes the high frequency output of the Sennheiser HD 650/Drop 6XX so extraordinarily clean is the low distortion levels in the upper octaves:

 

[solderdude]

The HD660S measures very similarly at 90dB SPL.
Tyll measured it at 100dB SPL as well and HD650 and HD660S measured similarly as well.
Will have to wait till Amir has one to find out what it does at 114dB.

 

[oozlum]

 

[NDRQ]

Imo, the HD600 treble is much more annoying, i had to send it back after a week.
I also think the 660s is better than the 650, close to its sound while mostly fixing the problems.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Well I have heard two pair of hd660s sounding completely different. One pair is more clear and transparent sounding hd650. The other is very dark, like no 3-6khz dark.

 

[RobertSc]

There is a review for the HD650 and the HD6XX use the same driver and tuning so they are almost identical.

Regarding the HD660s I don't hear anything bothersome at any frequency. When I use them I usually EQ some more bass, but I'm quite satisfied with the tonality. I also don't see anything striking in the FR graph on Crinacle's website.

Agree. I use my Sennheiser HD660s for studio mixing, and with the Sony NW1A walkman (equalized with a bit of mid and bass boost) - and they sound amazing. Don't have any issue with treble. Also, worth noting that these headphones sound warmer after about 100 hours use.

 

[Carlo2AC]

Well I have heard two pair of hd660s sounding completely different. One pair is more clear and transparent sounding hd650. The other is very dark, like no 3-6khz dark.

how are the pads on them @JohnYang1997 ? there seem to be at least 2 different versions of the hd 660s floating around depending on when they where made

New Sennheiser pads measured.

New Sennheiser pads (HD580, HD58X, HD600, HD650, HD6XX, HD660S) As of medio 2021 Sennheiser is sourcing their pads from another (I assume much cheaper) supplier. Sennheiser mentioned there is very little difference in sound and differences within the entire audible range will be smaller than...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[AyeYoYoYO]

Sennheiser is marketing the 660 S as the successor to the 650. Wait.... what? Sure, the driver gives you perhaps 5-10% more detail retireval if you really sit there and critically listen and it's slighty faster but at what cost? The treble is grainy and the sound has this edge to it that's not there on the 600 and 650. The 660 S has the thick sound of the 650 but with itchy treble. This is jarring.

The recessed upper mids compared to the others in the 6X0 line make the grainy treble even more apparant. I fail to see how this headphone is a successor to the smooth sound of the 650. The 660 S isn't even a successor the 600.

What a strange product from Sennheiser. It's bizzarre how it's twice the price of the 6XX. Why do you guys think Sennheiser is going in this direction?

I appreciate the HD660S in a way that many don’t consider:

I believe the HD660S is merely THE FIRST in a line of succession from the HD6__ line. They took the superfast, very detailed modern HD700 driver, and put it into the well loved, super comfortable, recognizable housing and headband design of the tried and true HD6__ series.

But it’s their first real attempt at tuning the two together. And it’s a dark tuning. Dark, but extremely fast. I think it’s no mystery as to why they gave it a fully matte black housing, and named it how they did, 660S (an evolution to the dark/smooth 650).

What I am eagerly awaiting, is their second, brighter attempt at tuning the HD700 to the beloved super comfortable HD6__ series housing.

This second brighter more present/forward tuning of the HD700 driver, will likely be named the HD610S, and feature a lighter shade of grey marble, and electric aqua blue badging, just like their ancestor the legendary HD600.

But while I am eagerly awaiting it, I don’t want them to rush it…. Like the HD600, they should get it so right that it enjoys another ridiculously long lifespan of professional and hobbyist enthusiasm.

 

[McGillroy]

Got the 660S two days without any prior knowledge. Just wanted a headphone to complement my Beyer 1990DT. Had heard the 650 at shops against the Beyer and ultimately picked the latter cause it had a little more bass and better midrange. But it was close and I very much liked the 650.

Saw a B-Stock 660S in the Sennheiser outlet and grabbed it. 660 > 650 & newer = better...

First impression of the 660S was fffff....k this is bright...!

Been listening the past two days going back and forth with the Beyer on a RME BFP FS and a Linn Maik DSM. The 660S has better detail retrieval and faster transients for sure but I struggle to listen longer than a few minutes. The treble indeed feels grainy and off. I mostly listen to classical and self recorded acoustic music music. Trying to listen to solo piano music on the 660S is a challenge and bordering the unpleasant. Not to mention trumpets.

Not sure if I want to fix this with EQ.

Will give this another week but my feeling is the 660S will go back. Maybe I'll get 650 eventually. Or a Heddphone.

The Beyer again amazes me with its musicality. Can listen with it for hours.