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The tale of 2 amps (subjective)

LouB

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I thought had problem with my system & ordered a new amp (problem was me not the system see this, https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...iot-here-but-not-hopeless.42722/#post-1512319)
Anyway new amp was ordered before I fixed the problem & it showed up a few days ago. My thought was to do back to back listening & return new amp if it doesn't sound better than the AV amp. Goal was to improve 2 channel music only, the "testing"/listening was done with a decibel meter to make sure volume was the same when comparing. I Used a large variety of music CD's, streamed & phono, I know it's very subjective test but it is what it is. To say the least I was a bit surprised at the result even though I've read here from very knowledgeable people that amps don't "sound" different. I've also read that AV amps don't do 2 channel music as well as a dedicated amp. The amps are an AV Yamaha RX A102O about 8 years old & a new Marantz PM8006 playing through Paradigm Special Edition SE3 speakers (no sub) both amps in "direct mode" no EQ. using a Marantz CD6006 player, Yamaha music streamer & Rega Turntable.
The amps with a digital source sounded very very similar, the bass on the Marantz was a bit more defined but not a lot, the Yamaha Highs & mids seemed a bit more pronounced but not by much. At higher volume the Marantz seemed easier on the ears but at anything below 80 db's the sound was very much alike defiantly no clear winner hard to tell them apart. When using the turntable the Marantz was a clear winner with the Yamaha sounding kinda of dull compared to the Marantz. If there is a Marantz "house sound" I didn't hear it or Yamaha built the "house sound" into the the RX-1020.
All in all I was surprised at how good the Yamaha stacked up against the Marantz. I do think for extended listening times like a few hours or so the Marantz would be a better choice especially at higher volumes at least for my ears. I'm also not sure how my speakers played into the test, could they be the cause of the similarity ?
Anyway I'm on the fence about if I should return the Marantz & spend the money on new speakers ? I'll do some more listening and hopefully it will become clear on what to do I still have about 2 weeks on the return window.
 

RoA

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Its often the little differences that we pay a lot of money for. Diminishing returns set in.

Having said that, its often these small differences, especially the bad ones, which, once heard, can't be unheard. Lack of bass control, harsh upper mids etc.

It looks like you saved yourself quite a bit of money if you can't hear many differences. A speaker change will always result in larger perceived differences than an amplifier change but get one wrong and you are back to square one.

Just to add to the complication/s ... an amplifier and speaker change may give you bliss in the long run

Joys of Hifi :)
 
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fpitas

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Differences.jpg
 

BDWoody

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To say the least I was a bit surprised at the result even though I've read here from very knowledgeable people that amps don't "sound" different.

You will likely find that the more you tighten the controls on your comparison, the more those differences you did hear will disappear.

Match the levels with a voltmeter across the speaker terminals, get someone else to switch cables so you don't know which is which (hopefully they don't know either, so they can't give any 'tells'), and you may find even those small differences aren't there any more.
 

BDWoody

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Anyway I'm on the fence about if I should return the Marantz & spend the money on new speakers ?

Improving the speaker/room situation is almost always going to yield the most dramatic improvements, especially if it's an area you haven't paid much attention to.

If it hasn't been suggested before, getting yourself setup with an Umik-1 mic ( https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1 ) and the free software REW ( https://www.roomeqwizard.com/ ) combined with a little time to learn what you are doing, will help you really see into what is happening in your room.

Also, adding a sub (or preferably 2 or 3) is almost always going to make a significant positive difference if done properly, which is going to be almost impossible without measurements and a fair bit of work or by using the bass management systems built into room correction software like Dirac or Audyssey.
 
OP
L

LouB

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Improving the speaker/room situation is almost always going to yield the most dramatic improvements, especially if it's an area you haven't paid much attention to.

If it hasn't been suggested before, getting yourself setup with an Umik-1 mic ( https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1 ) and the free software REW ( https://www.roomeqwizard.com/ ) combined with a little time to learn what you are doing, will help you really see into what is happening in your room.

Also, adding a sub (or preferably 2 or 3) is almost always going to make a significant positive difference if done properly, which is going to be almost impossible without measurements and a fair bit of work or by using the bass management systems built into room correction software like Dirac or Audyssey.
Thanks, I do have a large Paradigm sub which sounds fantastic with movies but I actually like my 2 channel music without it, (that may be because I've never tried bass management). Unfortunate or not I'm a bit of luddite, but also totally realize the benefit of REW & bass management. I just can't see myself going down that road for my "simple" 2 channel system. It's amazing how those Paradigm Special Edition SE3 speakers handle the bass on music but for home theater they really need a sub. Been thinking of getting a pair of 3 way speakers with a 10" or 12" woofer for the music. I was going to try JBL L100 classic but missed out the sale they had going on if they go on sale again I'll be trying them out.
 

Blumlein 88

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snip..... the "testing"/listening was done with a decibel meter to make sure volume was the same when comparing.................
Please you guys are killing me with the db meter level matching. Use a voltmeter at the speaker terminals. You need very precise matching or it corrupts the test.


USE A VOLTMETER AT THE SPEAKER TERMINALS!!!!!!!!!!!!
MATCH VOLTAGES WITHIN 1%.

USE A VOLTMETER AT THE SPEAKER TERMINALS!!!!!!!!!!!!
MATCH VOLTAGES WITHIN 1%.

USE A VOLTMETER AT THE SPEAKER TERMINALS!!!!!!!!!!!!
MATCH VOLTAGES WITHIN 1%.
 
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