The sound on Win 11 is worse than on Win 10

[babidzhon]

In 2021, as soon as Windows 11 was released, I decided to install it and noticed that the sound quality in my headphones had changed significantly, in my opinion for the worse. I often listened to the same tracks using the Philips SHP9500 + Meizu HiFi USB Dac combination. The sound became more "muddy" and less detailed, with a narrow soundstage pushed forward. I also noticed that if I set the maximum sample rate on Win 11 (in my case, it's 352/384khz), the sound changes slightly (I'm not sure in which direction), but the bass becomes more responsive, and the high frequencies are more defined (this is not the case on Win 10). I thought it was a problem with my computer, but no, I tried it on two different PCs, and the situation didn't change. I went back to Windows 10 and continued listening to music, occasionally switching to Windows 11 and then rolling back, hoping that something would change. I thought it might be a problem with my cheap DAC, or that the drivers were installed incorrectly. Another important detail is that if you set a high priority for the USB hub that is connected to the audio device in the GoInterruptPolicy program, the sound becomes more assertive, dynamic, and detailed (this did not work on Win 11). And now recently I got a new FiiO K7 DAC/amplifier and Hifiman Ananda Stealth V2 headphones with Openheart 16 core balanced cable. About 2 months I listened to music on Spotify on Win 10 and was enjoying the sound. Installed Win 11 and the situation repeated, the sound is just terrible. The wide stage narrowed and moved forward, the instruments decreased in size, the cymbals became not metal but wooden, the bass became more but it is not so collected and punchy. All the built-in "enhancers" and surround sound were turned off. I also listened to music through Foobar2000 with ASIO/WASAPI, and the sound was just as bad. I've returned to Win 10. Again. I wrote to Microsoft support about this, and they replied that they had changed something in the audio processing, but I still don't understand. I can't resolve this issue - what was it? Maybe the audio is actually better on Win 11, but I don't know. Please help me find the answer.

 

[staticV3]

Hi @babidzhon! Welcome to ASR.

Besides placebo, the most likely culprit behind sound differences/issues in Windows is preinstalled APOs, which are basically effect plugins natively built into Windows.

Using the Configurator of Equalizer APO, you can disable all original APOs to make sure there's no unwanted processing going on.

More here:

'Ending the Windows Audio Quality Debate'

Jan 17, 2021

A debate has been long raging in the audio community that Windows isn't fit for use in a high resolution audio system. Sceptics counterargued that bits are bits and Windows audio degradations are a figment of an over-active audiophile imagination.

I decided to investigate this as I kept hearing issues with Windows, even after following common practice to (controversially) supposedly make it clean. I found some surprises along the way.

Sorry for the long post but my motivation is to share how to get effectively perfect audio from Windows, to save folks money and headaches, and to help...

• DDF
• apo audio upsampling caudiolimier digital filter intersample over pc audio remote windows windows 10
• Replies: 858
• Forum: Home Music Servers, Computers and Streamers

• 

Finally, you can use the Wasapi Loopback recording feature inside Audacity to capture all post-APO system audio.

If there really is a difference, these recordings will show it.

Afterwards, you can load the recordings into Pkane Deltawave.

It will analyze the difference between the two recordings and give you the option to directly compare the recordings blind, without knowing which one is which.

 

[babidzhon]

Привет, @babidzhon! Добро пожаловать в ASR.

Помимо плацебо, наиболее вероятным виновником различий/проблем со звуком в Windows являются предустановленные APO, которые по сути являются плагинами эффектов, изначально встроенными в Windows.

Используя конфигуратор Equalizer APO, вы можете отключить все исходные APO, чтобы убедиться в отсутствии нежелательной обработки.

Подробнее здесь:

'Ending the Windows Audio Quality Debate'

Jan 17, 2021

A debate has been long raging in the audio community that Windows isn't fit for use in a high resolution audio system. Sceptics counterargued that bits are bits and Windows audio degradations are a figment of an over-active audiophile imagination.

I decided to investigate this as I kept hearing issues with Windows, even after following common practice to (controversially) supposedly make it clean. I found some surprises along the way.

Sorry for the long post but my motivation is to share how to get effectively perfect audio from Windows, to save folks money and headaches, and to help...

• DDF
• apo audio upsampling caudiolimier digital filter intersample over pc audio remote windows windows 10
• Replies: 858
• Forum: Home Music Servers, Computers and Streamers

• 

Наконец, вы можете использовать функцию записи Wasapi Loopback в Audacity для захвата всего системного звука после APO.

Если разница действительно есть, эти записи ее покажут.

После этого вы сможете загрузить записи в Pkane Deltawave.

Он проанализирует разницу между двумя записями и предоставит вам возможность напрямую сравнить записи вслепую, не зная, какая из них какая.

Thanks for the reply. This is not a placebo, but a tangible difference. I forgot to mention that I already tried installing and configuring EAPO, and it didn't change anything.

 

[Sal1950]

Спасибо за ответ. Это не плацебо, а ощутимая разница. Забыл упомянуть, что я уже пробовал установить и настроить EAPO, и это ничего не изменило.

English only please.
Thank you.

 

[DVDdoug]

How to turn off or Disable "Audio Enhancements" in Windows 11/10

Some computer and soundcard manufacturers also add their own effects but if you didn't change hardware that shouldn't have changed.

Or, possibly the Win10 setup is altering the audio in ways that you like.

The sound became more "muddy" and less detailed, with a narrow soundstage pushed forward ...but the bass becomes more responsive, and the high frequencies are more defined... more assertive, dynamic, and detailed.. .The wide stage narrowed and moved forward, the instruments decreased in size, the cymbals became not metal but wooden, the bass became more but it is not so collected and punchy.

You are using a lot of undefined words. It's possible to have MORE or LESS bass or treble with EQ or tone controls (or with different headphones/speakers). It's POSSIBLE to narrow the soundstage by blending the left & right but that doesn't happen "accidently" either.

Audiophoolery describes the FEW REAL characteristics of sound quality, which should help you to avoid all of those "audiophile nonsense" words.

I also listened to music through Foobar2000 with ASIO/WASAPI

ASIO prevents the operating system from changing the audio data. But the foobar2000 EQ and volume control may still work because it can be applied before the audio data goes to the drivers. But, I don't think your DAC has ASIO drivers.

 

[staticV3]

This is not a placebo, but a tangible difference

Then Audacity recordings will show it.

Without evidence, there's nothing to discuss here.

 

[babidzhon]

Вы используете много неопределённых слов. Можно получить БОЛЬШЕ или МЕНЬШЕ басов или высоких частот с помощью эквалайзера или тембра (или с помощью других наушников/колонок). Можно сузить звуковую сцену, смешав левый и правый каналы, но это тоже не происходит «случайно».

Аудиофобия описывает НЕМНОГО РЕАЛЬНЫХ характеристик качества звука, которые должны помочь вам избежать всех этих слов о «аудиофильской ерунде».


ASIO не позволяет операционной системе изменять аудиоданные. Однако эквалайзер и регулятор громкости Foobar2000 могут работать, поскольку их можно применить до того, как аудиоданные попадут в драйверы. Однако, я не думаю, что у вашего ЦАП есть драйверы ASIO.

I suppose you want to tell me that all this is nonsense, and it seems to me. But I don't think so. I would be happy not to hear the difference and be content with what is, but I can't accept that the Win 11 has a completely different sound. Maybe someone will convince me that Win 11 actually has a more correct sound and I will upgrade to this version, because this is the only thing that repels me from installing this version of the operating system. I'm sure if I had started listening to music on Win 11 and switched to Win 10, I would have stayed on 10. By the way, there is an asio driver for my DAC, and I have installed it

 

[Sal1950]

I suppose you want to tell me that all this is nonsense, and it seems to me. But I don't think so. I

Anything is possible, but if the differences are as audible as you claim they should be easily measurable, there isn't any magic.
It's so hard if not impossible to do a rapid A - B comparison, even a 0.5 db difference in level will sound almost instantly different with the louder sounding better. So it's just that you need to do some testing and investigation to see if you can determine the cause of the dif.
I can't make any knowledgeable comments on the different Windoz OS sound paths, I run Linux with the Strawberry media player which is easily configurable to deliver a bit perfect data stream from the digital file to my sound cards HDMI output via Alsa backend.

 

[phofman]

Well, installing an asio driver does not mean the player uses it automatically. Also using wasapi (shared, not exclusive) means going through the windows mixer with all its effects.

 

[Sal1950]

Well, installing an asio driver does not mean the player uses it automatically. Also using wasapi (shared, not exclusive) means going through the windows mixer with all its effects.

Doz sound paths/configurations are so confusing to the average user, you need an EE degree to figure things out.
I think that's why Amir retired from Micro$oft. LOL

 

[coonmanx]

So glad that I put Windoze in the rear view and now exclusively use Linux. No hassles.