The Sober Thread

[Martin]

37 years clean and sober on August 4th.

Martin

 

[xanalog]

I am among the 'addictive personality' types but I have been so dang lucky that I have never fancied alcohol but always smoked... well... like a chimney!
Smoking is my vice and even my mate and my doctor have given up on me to reconsider cessation.
While a teen, some relative had told me that 'drinking alcohol kills brain cells' and I had reasoned that my brain cells are more worthy than my family jewels.
When I asked {Claude} "Does alcohol kill brain cells?":

{CLAUDE} >> — Mostly a myth, but with real asterisks.
< cite index="16-1">Though it's commonly believed alcohol kills brain cells, the evidence indicates it doesn't</cite>
< cite index="12-1">the available evidence suggests alcohol doesn't kill brain cells directly, and the tipsy/impaired symptoms you feel after drinking are temporary and reversible.</cite>
< cite index="17-1">What alcohol actually does, especially with heavy or chronic use, is different and arguably more insidious: it doesn't destroy neurons outright, but it can alter neuron structure — long-term heavy drinking specifically damages dendrites (the nerve fibers neurons use to communicate) in the cerebellum,</cite> the region governing motor coordination.
< cite index="13-1">Chronic misuse can also trigger brain inflammation that damages nerve cells over time, and contributes to nutrient deficiencies that compound the damage.</cite>

{CLAUDE} Further notes that beyond the brain; chronic alcohol use spreads damage across nearly every organ system. We know those already, thanks to MADD!

But there is good news:

{CLAUDE} >> The genuine exception, worth being precise about:< cite index="17-1">researchers have found alcohol can kill neural stem cells specifically — different from mature neurons, these are the cells responsible for producing new brain cells.</cite>
< cite index="12-1">So it's less "alcohol kills the neurons you have" and more "alcohol can suppress your brain's ability to make new ones" —an animal study found alcohol at a blood concentration around 0.08 didn't impair motor skills or short-term learning, but reduced new brain cell production by almost 40%.</cite> Encouragingly, though:
< cite index="16-1">that process (neurogenesis) does resume once someone stops drinking, though it takes months for new neurons to be established.</cite>

TL&DR: Quitting alcohol is good for your brain and your wallet. Alert your reward system and spend the money on new audio gear.
Best wishes!

 

[mlsstl]

Re: Kevin McCauley video: "I do not know if it is entirely rooted in science...."

Dr. McCauley is the real deal. He was a Blue Angels flight surgeon who ended up battling his own addiction which landed him in military prison. Realizing he wouldn't be a flight surgeon anymore, he switch the focus of his medical practice to addiction medicine. That was many years ago and he is a great source of authoritative information concerning addiction and recovery.

24 years in recovery for me. Works much better this way.

 

[Soundproof]

Well, alcohol works like a solvent, and the damages it does to the brain would be similar to what painters suffers from Toluene/Xylene and possibly Trichloroethane and so or what happens to people sniffing thinners..... Would be similar changes to memory, body control, tolerance, behaviours and so... Might be science have developed further and found more nuances though...

 

[ryanosaur]

I definitely qualified as a Gray-Area Drinker. Really just an old school hedonist in many ways.

I mostly cut beer at the beginning of the year. Where I would drink beer as water replacement and knock back a 6 pack over an afternoon, I've had maybe 7 beer (singular) in this calendar year. Liquor is never something I hit very hard. Certainly there are occasions I have, but more than anything, I enjoy the flavor of a good Whiskey or Rum, for example, or a well crafted cocktail...

Again, I dropped that as a daily habit in April. While I have had occasions to imbibe, I've managed to keep them to a minimum.

My choice is voluntary, for health and wellness. I know it's deleterious to overall wellbeing and I embrace the change. For myself, I know and accept that I will occasionally have a tipple. More than anything, I am actively resetting my relationship with alcohol so that if I do have a drink, it is just that. A drink, maybe two. Then I'm good for a while.

Sadly, another person close to me is on the other side of that divide, and is not very graceful about discussions that touch on her overuse. Dare I say, she resents my "cleaner" path and seems to dive deeper in response though I do not wave it in her face. Of course, even last year, my beer consumption was a red flag for her, but not her tequila consumption. Where once we were hedonists together, her "enjoyment" is seemingly no longer about enjoyment.

Best wishes to those who are succeeding in changing their relationship, as well as to those who wish to. I know it can be difficult at times, but we can achieve anything if we choose to. I have chosen to.

 

[xanalog]

{CLAUDE} Further notes that beyond the brain; chronic alcohol use spreads damage across nearly every organ system. We know those already, thanks to MADD!...

I ask {CLAUDE}>> You say "…every organ system" but you know the one I got in mind? >> Our hearing on alcohol but NOT chronic.

{CLAUDE} >> Fair question, and the research does draw that line pretty clearly — here's the non-chronic side specifically:
Occasional/moderate drinking: the effect is mostly temporary and reversible. "Cocktail deafness" — the low-frequency hearing dip during and shortly after drinking — resolves back to normal for most people once they're done drinking. A single binge episode can also cause temporary hearing difficulty (that 70% figure in young binge drinkers), but again, temporary. The meta-analysis explicitly frames this as dose-dependent: moderate, occasional drinking carries much smaller risk than chronic heavy use, particularly with adequate nutrition (the B12 angle). Where it tips into permanent territory: the concern isn't one night out — it's repeated, frequent episodes accumulating over years. The hypothesis in the research is that each bout of temporary cocktail deafness is, in principle, fully reversible on its own, but enough repeated bouts over a long enough time may not fully reverse between episodes, gradually shading into the permanent hair-cell damage.

REVISION:

TL&DR: Quitting alcohol is good for your brain and your wallet AND YOUR HEARING. Alert your reward system and spend the money on new BETTER audio gear.

Our hearing also shows similar signs when exposed to loud SPL (aka TTS) but when that loud SPL is sustained for long-time exposure (aka PTS) … permanent damage is caused by such accumulations.

There has been a few off-thread ASR discussions of alcohol + music.

 

[john61ct]

I was crippled by many different addictions over many decades, including to experiences and habits society considers "sober".

Thanks to my Higher Power and various 12-Step rooms, I was freed of active dependence on all drugs including alcohol on April 4th 1989 and have remained so, one day at a time since then.

Had I not I doubt I would have survived for long, much less enjoyed many happy marriages and raising several crops of wonderful children plus diverse rewarding and interesting careers, living all around the world constantly learning new cultures and languages.

Peace of Mind has become my top priority, and I try to keep an attitude of Gratitude for my sobriety and its many rewards at the front of my consciousness as I get to hopefully live out another decade or maybe two.

 

[spacevector]

60 days through today!

90 day mark seems easier to achieve now than it did a month ago.

I do have some evenings when the cravings are strong - specially Friday nights but I have survived so far LOL.

I am not using alcohol or cannabis but have been smoking more cigarettes than I used to. I will taper them off once I’m at 90 days.

Reading online, alcohol addiction is stipulated to have a couple of aspects - chemical and behavioral. I am handling the chemical part but still find myself at the bar pounding NA beers LOL. One step at a time - I’m thinking fix the chemical part first and arrest the bad health effects. Then we can handle the behavioral side.

I also read that it is recommended to have a year of sobriety before you start introducing alcohol (if at all) so I may push my target to 365 days from 90. The idea is to go through all life’s events - birthdays, holidays, etc - without alcohol before you introduce it again.

We had a small trip with some friends over the Labor Day holiday in the USA. My buddy knew I wasn’t drinking and he is supportive - he still indulged and brought up an interesting question: is it possible that we have had our last drink together? This made me think - I hope so for health reason. Yet, I hope not since that would mark the end of a fun activity we shared.

Hope everyone is having a good weekend.

 

[muslhead]

Yet, I hope not since that would mark the end of a fun activity we shared.

Hope everyone is having a good weekend.

SV- Why is being high the only way to have a fun activity?
Seems you need to work through this. I find being sober (I dont drink) is as fun as it gets. Just a matter of one looks at things and easily changeable
BoL

 

[john61ct]

Unasked for advice:

Yes include all mind altering drugs along with alcohol as one project.

Don't even think about working on other bad habits like tobacco, coffee etc

food, sex, gambling shopping whatever

until the one year point, and even then only if feeling very comfortable and secure in that "primary sobriety". And then only one at a time.

GO TO MEETINGS regularly, as in, for years...

 

[Soundproof]

SV- Why is being high the only way to have a fun activity?
Seems you need to work through this. I find being sober (I dont drink) is as fun as it gets. Just a matter of one looks at things and easily changeable
BoL

I've been around people enjoying, using and even abusing various substances to various extent since I was a kid. I've also been around teetotalists all my life. And none of the persons using those substances did ever cause more harm to family, women and children than the teetotalists I know. Consequently, I don't take moral/ethical advice from any teetotalist. Have never met one who wasn't a hypocrite with moral and ethics I would never tolerate being imposed upon any of my beloved ones or any child or woman for that matter. As far as I'm concerned, they would never dare trying.

 

[john61ct]

Bizarre IMO

Out of the many many hundreds of addicts and alcoholics I've known over the years

the ones that are still active do 1000x² more harm to their F&F circles, themselves and the larger community, including both destroying and ending lives

than those even just attempting to get sober, much less successfully remaining so over the years.

To the point that I see any abuse of intoxicating substances as inherently immoral.

I do concede that a small subset have been able to successfully moderate their usage, as opposed to the usual "teetotalist" approach you seem so unreasonably biased against (protest too much?)

but it's been a very small percentage.

Edit: I see you're British, and this disagreement is very much reflective of deep cultural differences so I will try to be more tolerant of your POV. Maybe UK "teetotalists" are indeed evil, but not something I've observed in the dozen+ other places I've resided

 

[Soundproof]

Bizarre IMO

Out of the many many hundreds of addicts and alcoholics I've known over the years

the ones that are still active do 1000x² more harm to their F&F circles, themselves and the larger community, including both destroying and ending lives

than those even just attempting to get sober, much less successfully remaining so over the years.

To the point that I see any abuse of intoxicating substances as inherently immoral.

I do concede that a small subset have been able to successfully moderate their usage, as opposed to the usual "teetotalist" approach you seem so unreasonably biased against (protest too much?)

but it's been a very small percentage.

Edit: I see you're British, and this disagreement is very much reflective of deep cultural differences so I will try to be more tolerant of your POV. Maybe UK "teetotalists" are indeed evil, but not something I've observed in the dozen+ other places I've resided

Maybe you haven't resided somewhere long enough. People tend to dump their manure in the backyard and leave the facade immaculate.

You are entering an thread where people sharing their experiences from dropping use of various substances trying to impose some sort of ideologically based screwed superior ethics and morale upon people you don't know at all. I don't need your tolerance more than I need your attempt to impose your ideology upon others. Save it for your congregation.