The smallest portable digital audio player able to pass sound to a portable USB DAC

[Dedicado]

Hello, I'm trying to find what's stated in the title, I need it for playing music while doing exercise.

Since wireless audio is the trend for that already, it's very hard to find small audio players, I suppose because:

-All Android smartphones are huge now, even the cheapest entry level. And I'm saying this as someone who always used the biggest smartphone available because I'm used to desktop monitors. The first smartphone I bought in 2013 was named a "phone tablet" at 5.5". Also, since smartphones batteries degrade into unusable levels after around 5 years and are either very difficult or expensive to replace, I'm not sure buying an old used small Android smartphone is the better option.

-"Audiophile" grade portable players (except one), are heavy, bulky and/or big, I think they are done more for a portable desktop experience (as in, you sit down in a desktop which isn't at home, place the DAP in the table and then take it with you when you are finished) than for actually on the go playing (as in, doing exercise or commuting). And those closer to a smaller smartphone size are still in the range of 4-5" because they are also oriented to video reproduction. The only one I found which is small in this range is the Shanling M0 and M0 Pro, but it's around 110 €/$ and I read the brand reliability is low and its support procedure is basically ignoring you.

-The trend for exercise is a smartwatch and wireless IEMs, connected through BT. People doing that don't need either a separated DAP or a DAC, so wired solutions for on the go are probably being phased out. Of course BT sound sounds closer to 128 kbps MP3 than to lossless, but the masses are happy with the convenience of light weight and no cables.

-There are a few Aliexpress grade small music players, I tried one and the sound from the 3.5 mm jack plug is very serviceable for a device of 16-20 €/$, unimaginable years ago. But this one I tried doesn't pass sound through the USB-C port, which looks like it's only for charging, I doubted if it could and then confirmed it. For people used to dynamic drivers and cheap IEMs is probably good enough with direct 3.5 mm, but I prefer planar drivers which require more juice.


There is one Aliexpress grade small player in the range of 10-12 €/$ which in a picture mentions OTG support, but I'm not sure if USB OTG always include audio reproduction or they are just mentioning you could connect the player to a PC to transfer files:

USB OTG isn't mentioned in the text description, just this:

Transmission interface: Type C USB
Interface transmission speed: High-speed USB2.0 (up to 20MB/s transmission)

Other cheap players only mention USB-C as charging, so this one looks like that at least it could be connected to a computer for file transfer.

I read here USB DAC dongles like the Fosi DS2, Fiio KA11 or Jcally JM20/MAX/Pro are the final solution to the very portable budget DAC problem, but from what I'm reading, if you want such a sound quality included in a DAP, the price is closer to 150-250 €/$ than to 25-30 of a USB dongle + 15-20 of a cheap player (if one worked for USB sound reproduction, that is).


Does it look like that USB OTG cheap player I mentioned could pass sound to a USB dongle? Or is this basically limited to Android OS, even though OTG was mentioned?

Is there another solution I'm not aware of?

Thank you

 

[staticV3]

The Shanling M0 Pro is likely the smallest DAP that can function as digital transport with USB audio output to an external DAC.

 

[Jimi Mack]

Take a look at the Hiby R1.

 

[Dedicado]

The Shanling M0 Pro is likely the smallest DAP that can function as digital transport with USB audio output to an external DAC.

But I read this about the brand:

The only one I found which is small in this range is the Shanling M0 and M0 Pro, but it's around 110 €/$ and I read the brand reliability is low and its support procedure is basically ignoring you.

Do you know if it's true? Thank you

Also, at that price point and alleged good and powerful DAC capabilities, you wouldn't need an external DAC, so no need to pass the audio through USB because you could just straight play the audio through the 3.5 mm jack with enough volume level and sound quality.

I mean, I was considering either:

• a cheap and small DAP + a good external dongle DAC (hence the need to pass the audio through USB)
• a good and small DAP (with no need for an external DAC), but I could only find the Shanling M0 and M0 Pro, with the reported low reliability which is something to consider because of its price point for an Aliexpress buy

Take a look at the Hiby R1.

Thank you, the weight is acceptable but the size is closer to older smartphones:

Dimensions: 83.5*51.1*12.35mm
Weight: 70g

Also it has BT and WiFi support, I wasn't going to use either but both increase its price.



I just got a Fiio KA11 (USB DAC dongle) and in the highest 2 volume levels it starts to offset the Android volume limit in the EU, which is taken straight out of Demolition man dystopic future. So if there was a cheap and small DAP device, it would be enough for me because I could use it with my smartphone and with an ideal small DAP for when doing exercise, but I see there is none

 

[staticV3]

it starts to offset the Android volume limit in the EU

No such volume limit exists in EU versions of One UI, Oxygen OS, Lineage OS, or MIUI.

 

[ZolaIII]

@Dedicado Ufff why do you people need to complicate everything?
DAP's in generally perform bad. So it's hard to recommend one.
In what you want there where Hiby R3 Pro with CS43131 but you won't find it anymore, you can find Sabre ESS newer version of the same and it will perform worse (SINAD/battery autonomy). It gives -2 dB to 2/4 V unbalanced/balanced out. You also get a Hiby link so you can control it from their other DAP or phone. LDAC high paird with solid DAC is almost lose less and you certainly won't hear the difference. I use Hiby W3 II on the go and it serves it's purpose for sensitive to mid sensitive IEM's and can's (unbalanced only also - 2 dB to 2V).

 

[Dedicado]

No such volume limit exists in EU versions of One UI, Oxygen OS, Lineage OS, or MIUI.

There is definitely an artificial headphone volume limit in at least one of the One UI EU versions, because I suffered it through the updates, which each result in a lower maximum headphone volume. I'm not sure if it's official, but it's definitely there and we all know the reason for it.

@Dedicado Ufff why do you people need to complicate everything?
DAP's in generally perform bad. So it's hard to recommend one.
In what you want there where Hiby R3 Pro with CS43131 but you won't find it anymore, you can find Sabre ESS newer version of the same and it will perform worse (SINAD/battery autonomy). It gives -2 dB to 2/4 V unbalanced/balanced out. You also get a Hiby link so you can control it from their other DAP or phone. LDAC high paird with solid DAC is almost lose less and you certainly won't hear the difference. I use Hiby W3 II on the go and it serves it's purpose for sensitive to mid sensitive IEM's and can's (unbalanced only also - 2 dB to 2V).

I don't know, it looks like a simple thing to make an Android small device, everyone did it 12 years ago but it seems now there is none.

Do you mean you use the Hiby W3 II as a wired DAC? I don't know if BT focused DACs can work as wired without BT compression. All BT audio I've tried is noticeably compressed because of the limitations of the wireless medium.

 

[ZolaIII]

W3 II works as USB DAC but it's limited to USB audio 1.0 specification only. It can't give either power or connection to other DAC trough USB.
There are Android DAP's and they are smaller than phones this day's but I don't see the appeal. For example HiBy Digital M300.
I more like property small embedded OS one's as well with Android one's you pretty much end up like with Android ware smartwatches (with lot lower battery autonomy). Complain whose more about lower sensitivity and high impedance IEM's/headphones with portable gear. When you clean 100 dB SINAD it doesn't really matter if it's with LDAC or loosles it's cleared.

 

[JeremyFife]

If you are going to be exercising you're not listening critically - grab a used ipod nano for pennies and don't stress about the music quality

 

[Dedicado]

If you are going to be exercising you're not listening critically - grab a used ipod nano for pennies and don't stress about the music quality

I can't, for me it's like trying to ignore a really annoying loud sound, my senses won't allow it. I always listen critically when I hear music.


UPDATE on this issue:

1º This dirty cheap DAP actually works as advertised (OTG here just means you can access its storage from a computer though, but no sound output through the USB) but its 3.5 mm plug contact started to fail on me, causing noise due to poor plug contact. I think the reason is because I used a cable with too solid plugs for it to withstand, I got the feeling using a thin cable on par with its price range would work though.

There is one Aliexpress grade small player in the range of 10-12 €/$ which in a picture mentions OTG support, but I'm not sure if USB OTG always include audio reproduction or they are just mentioning you could connect the player to a PC to transfer files:

2º The Fiio KA11 (a USB DAC dongle) I bought failed on me after 1-2 months, it started to drop the sound and it looks like the model is at fault.

I described the problem in the KA11 thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/fiio-ka11-dac-dongle.56189/post-2388554

I'm getting a replacement so I will comment if this would happen again.

3º I've checked many DAP players in the 120-350 EUR/USD price range, like the Fiio JM21, Fiio M21, Hiby M300, Hiby R4 and Shanling M0 Pro, both Android and non-Android based, and the build quality and reliability compared to regular smartphones is reported as low. With a DAP, it seems you need to drop at least 400-500 EUR/USD for at least current (not past) Samsung A series smartphone quality, and at that price point I could just buy an actual Samsung A series and use it with a USB DAC dongle like the Fiio KA13/KA15.


The Shanling M0s (lower power) and M0 Pro (higher power) are still the smallest DAP players, but I need to use planar IEMs and that means M0 Pro only, which is around 120 EUR/USD on Aliexpress and the brand reliability isn't reported as great.

 

[Somafunk]

I can't, for me it's like trying to ignore a really annoying loud sound, my senses won't allow it. I always listen critically when I hear music.

If you listen critically to music when exercising then your obviously not focusing on the exercising element, why half arse such a thing?.

MP3 files/bluetooth buds are perfectly fine, anything else is utterly laughable

 

[Subob]

If you are going to be exercising you're not listening critically - grab a used ipod nano for pennies and don't stress about the music quality

Go one better and get a Sansa Clip. Literally built for exercising as they clip onto your clothing. My first ever MP3 player back in the day, and very nice it was too. No good to the OP though as it won't connect to a portable USB DAC.

I see the Shanling M0pro has also been mentioned. It's a great little player and will also meet the connectivity and power requirements of the OP.

 

[Dedicado]

If you listen critically to music when exercising then your obviously not focusing on the exercising element, why half arse such a thing?.

MP3 files/bluetooth buds are perfectly fine, anything else is utterly laughable

I think you don't understand what I'm saying: For me it's not a conscious process, I can't "choose" to ignore lower sound quality, specially for the music I enjoy the most that I know very well how good it sounds with better sound quality. I prefer not to listen to music at all, rather than listening to music below a certain quality threshold, no matter what I'm doing or not doing.

I can choose to concentrate more on listening to music at any given time, but I don't need to concentrate on listening to know, if a song I know well, was dynamically compressed into blandness or not. I do need to concentrate to feel the difference above certain quality levels , like comparing 320 kbps lossy to straight lossless, but not when the quality difference is huge (as with standard 128-192 kbps MP3 or wireless IEMs).

For this reason, I never bothered with wireless IEMs and I jumped into FLAC the moment it was available for portable music players. It might be laughable to you, but it isn't for me and that doesn't mean I'm not focusing on the exercising.

Go one better and get a Sansa Clip. Literally built for exercising as they clip onto your clothing. My first ever MP3 player back in the day, and very nice it was too. No good to the OP though as it won't connect to a portable USB DAC.

I see the Shanling M0pro has also been mentioned. It's a great little player and will also meet the connectivity and power requirements of the OP.

Thank you, I tried the modern equivalent to those MP3 players, like the one in the picture which for 20 EUR/USD is unbeatable, the sound quality was surprisingly enough for me and the only problem was that the 3.5 mm socket couldn't withstand a heavier IEM cable than basic cables. I tried it first, but I saw I needed to go to higher cost devices in order to keep the minimum sound quality and minimum reliability I need.

I'm trying to replicate the hifi planar sound I already have with my desktop headphones and my portable over ear headphones, without having to spend a lot of money because I already spent that with hardware I knew would last for years/decades. Because in the more portable sound, you have to take for granted the life expectancy is lower than with desktop.

I considered and I still consider the M0 Pro, it's around 90 EUR/USD when on sale on the official Shanling Aliexpress store, but too many people complain, with what appear to be valid and reasonable issues about their products and the support they get, for me to be comfortable spending that.