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The saturation point

notsodeadlizard

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I was leafing through the old issues of audioXpress yesterday.
The issues of the magazine was 2003, strictly 20 years ago.
It was very interesting :)

Behringer DSP8024 review, for example (with a lot of measurements of course).
It was an interesting device in a solid case with beautiful buttons, a graphical indicator and XLR sockets for $230.

DSP8024_big-6f0ce9c0903d595f0d27ed759d302ae2.jpg

DSP8024_P0022_Rear_XL.png


The positioning of this device at the time is not so interesting.
But the most interesting things were inside.

Analog inputs are balanced and based on the still very good NJM4580 dual op amp with the beautiful 0.0005% THD at 5V output signal.
Buffered (and amplified, one analog channel could be used for microphone) analog signal goes to the 2-channel 24-bit 48KHz ADC (AK5392).
Digitized signals are processed in realtime by 2 DSPs (each for own channel) and the resulted stream is returned to analog domain by the 2 24-bit DACs (CS4390).
All this was controlled by an 8-bit microcontroller, because in such devices such a controller is sufficient even today.

The device was used as a 31-band graphic digital equalizer, for the room equalization and so on.
The total system's THD was and is completely acceptable, about 0.004% in a worst case.
And it's difficult to find bad reviews about this device (I see some people still use it, this device is very "hackable").

So, it was the saturation point.
After that, you can see non-radical improvements here and there, every 3 dB below the then achieved -90 dB in an inexpensive and very complex "analog-digital-analog" device are given increasingly at a higher price.

And some very old solutions generally "pop up" in the most unexpected places.
Check out the reference design of the newest and best DAC from AK (a pair of AK4499EX / AK4191).
There are very nice high-speed voltage references used which are not a traditional Vref sources at all but the high speed variation of a very smart Superregulator (opamp is powered by voltage, which it also stabilizes). But all those Superregulators were announced as a kind of snake oil :)

In general, everything has become boring for a long time and it is not surprising that people want at least a little magic :)
 

sergeauckland

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It's as I've been saying for ages, HiFi electronics (and audio generally) was fixed by the 1980s. Since then, there have been incremental improvements to measured performance, but nothing that would result in audible improvements.

There have been improvements to loudspeakers, especially with active DSP-based 'speakers, but with electronics nothing that's audible at all.

Improvements (if you can call them that) have been made to recording methods, such as Atmos, but given that the vast majority of listening is on earbuds or smart 'speakers, I question the point.

For me, the real progress has been streaming, whether of my own ripped CDs or from Spotify and the like. That did make a huge difference for the better in the way I listened to music. However, having been doing that for some 20+ years, I'm finding playing a whole LP rather more satisfying than ever before.

Quote:-
In general, everything has become boring for a long time and it is not surprising that people want at least a little magic.

Explains much of the 'Subjectivist' stance and Snake Oil.

S.
 
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notsodeadlizard

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It's as I've been saying for ages, HiFi electronics (and audio generally) was fixed by the 1980s. Since then, there have been incremental improvements to measured performance, but nothing that would result in audible improvements.

There have been improvements to loudspeakers, especially with active DSP-based 'speakers, but with electronics nothing that's audible at all.

Improvements (if you can call them that) have been made to recording methods, such as Atmos, but given that the vast majority of listening is on earbuds or smart 'speakers, I question the point.

For me, the real progress has been streaming, whether of my own ripped CDs or from Spotify and the like. That did make a huge difference for the better in the way I listened to music. However, having been doing that for some 20+ years, I'm finding playing a whole LP rather more satisfying than ever before.

Quote:-
In general, everything has become boring for a long time and it is not surprising that people want at least a little magic.

Explains much of the 'Subjectivist' stance and Snake Oil.

S.
I am not so categorical and therefore by "magic" I do not necessarily mean snake oil.
No.
There still are a lot of "magical" around.
For example, elegant to pretentious technical solutions that are difficult to commercialize. It's about electrostatic and plasma drivers for example, they are still a bit "magical". Technically very complex systems for vinyl players dumping, and these players themselves, which look like starships from books read in childhood :)
Design remains an immense field for the "magical", because dull boxes have not been pleasing to the eye for a long time.
"Individual tailoring" is very "magical" also, despite the fact there is nothing new in "individual tailoring" at all. And the "magic" lies in the fact that everyone is very pleased to have something unique.

All this has nothing to do with snake oil, it's just a "real magic for people".
So the period of saturation always generates some kind of reaction.
The "high end" was and is a reaction to the dull saturation by the formally Hi-Fi based on those THD and IMD which for a long time there is no point in comparing at all.
There will be something else for sure.
Later.
Perhaps it will be a "democratization of the high end" (it already exists, Apple does it in mass products), perhaps it will be the reincarnation of something already forgotten, everything is possible. Because people do not like to be bored for a very long time.
 

fpitas

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We have no choice but to revive vacuum tubes and destroy the fidelity of their circuits.

/The high end solution
 
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notsodeadlizard

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Zensō

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It's as I've been saying for ages, HiFi electronics (and audio generally) was fixed by the 1980s. Since then, there have been incremental improvements to measured performance, but nothing that would result in audible improvements.

There have been improvements to loudspeakers, especially with active DSP-based 'speakers, but with electronics nothing that's audible at all.

Improvements (if you can call them that) have been made to recording methods, such as Atmos, but given that the vast majority of listening is on earbuds or smart 'speakers, I question the point.

For me, the real progress has been streaming, whether of my own ripped CDs or from Spotify and the like. That did make a huge difference for the better in the way I listened to music. However, having been doing that for some 20+ years, I'm finding playing a whole LP rather more satisfying than ever before.

Quote:-
In general, everything has become boring for a long time and it is not surprising that people want at least a little magic.

Explains much of the 'Subjectivist' stance and Snake Oil.

S.
Great post, I 100% concur.
 

fpitas

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fpitas

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Here we hope for a bright future with the highest fidelity equipment. The reality may be a world of distortion boxes, prized for their "character" :facepalm:
 
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notsodeadlizard

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Here we hope for a bright future with the highest fidelity equipment. The reality may be a world of distortion boxes, prized for their "character" :facepalm:
And again... :)
There are also a bunch of "tubezators" that introduce the type of "characteristic distortion" into the digital signal.
And they are used mainly by those who have never listened to tube amplifiers with adequate speakers LOL.
And while it's fun, it's completely normal.
(because of the myths and legends, it is very difficult for many people to accept the very idea that tube units, where they are good, obey the same criteria as everything else, and allow you to get 0.5-0.8% distortion with almost full output in a two-stage hybrid amplifier at all power without the feedback at all)
 
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