The REAL Problem of March Audio's Sointuva WG (Review, Measurements and Reinforcements with Klippel device)

[a4eaudio]

...Would be like a car company saying the car is fast and handles great. But refusing to let it be tested. Doesn't make sense.

A better analogy... It would be like a car company saying a car is fast and handles great. A lot of people buy the car and are very happy and think it is fast and handles great. Consumer Reports tests the car and reports zero-to-sixty, top speed, torque, etc. and the measurements don't look that great. Some guys on a car fanatics forum want the car company to do more tests and report their results. But the company keeps selling lots of cars and those buyers are in general quite happy. The car company tells the forum members to take a hike.

 

[Sokel]

Truth is that us, older ones are used to "feel like a king" treatment by the dealers, so much that it has become an element of the hobby.

And rightfully so, our life's are not dependent on it, is just a hobby so the royal treatment (in all its hypocrisy, agreed to that) is fully justified.
Along with NEVER paying the official prices depending on the relationship build over the years, private sessions, etc, the works.

Imagine how strange it feels to see such behaviors as if someone is holding the secret of youth or something.

And for what? A speaker with a linear on/off axis like the ones built at diyaudio for decades? Like Aerials made by actual physicists with PhD from MIT?
Like this little beauty at the DIY thread here at ASR?

And you're willing to tolerate such behavior in the face of failures like cracking cabinets?
What can I say, you're far more forgiving than I will ever be

 

[Sokel]

A better analogy... It would be like a car company saying a car is fast and handles great. A lot of people buy the car and are very happy and think it is fast and handles great. Consumer Reports tests the car and reports zero-to-sixty, top speed, torque, etc. and the measurements don't look that great. Some guys on a car fanatics forum want the car company to do more tests and report their results. But the company keeps selling lots of cars and those buyers are in general quite happy. The car company tells the forum members to take a hike.

A, we're playing car analogies now, ok.
Anyone remember 1995's Fiat Coupe?

 

[a4eaudio]

A, we're playing car analogies now, ok.

Well, I didn't start the car analogy.

Doesn't every thread end up with a car analogy in it somewhere?

 

[Billy Budapest]

There is not a lot to say that is negative about most of the products though.

Agreed, and that’s the real shame of it. Plus, the design of his products is beautiful (IMHO). I quite enjoyed his presence on the forum before the Sointuva episode. I didn’t even mind that the DAC was a rebadged Khadas toneboard with the coax input removed. The only downside for me was having to pay the import duties as a U.S. purchaser.

Then the whole Sointuva episode came out of nowhere and just shook my confidence in him. Not that there were some (easily fixed) issues with the speaker, but that the way he conducted himself did not bode well for his customer service. Would I hand over thousands of dollars and receive from across the Pacific Ocean a defective speaker that he wouldn’t take back for repair? That’s a serious question.

Perhaps if he outsourced his customer service to a third party (i.e., a U.S. distributor) with experience dealing with defective products and a customer-is-always-right attitude, that would allay my concerns. But at least for now, I am not willing to take that risk.

 

[Holmz]

… Would I hand over thousands of dollars and receive from across the Pacific Ocean a defective speaker that he wouldn’t take back for repair? That’s a serious question…

OK…
What about this:

For the record, I own a pair of Sointuva AWGs, and am happy with them. There are no issues with sound quality or build quality that I'm aware of. The cabinets are Jarrah wood and they look great. I did have an issue with cracking (!). (The humidity in my apartment gets very low in the winter.) I contacted Alan about this, and he took them in and replaced the cabinets. Under warranty, so no costs for me.

In general I would probably avoid the solid wood if I was in place with high humidity swings… however the looks, the measurements, and the sound are all alluring.

You can also get some good speakers made in the USA.
They might cost more, and may or may not measure as well.
But they could be check more of the boxes for you.

 

[Billy Budapest]

OK…
What about this:

I’m glad that person had a good experience. Maybe Alan has learned a thing or too about customer service.

 

[Sokel]

I’m glad that person had a good experience. Maybe Alan has learned a thing or too about customer service.

Yes, you can learn some of it.
But if you truly value your business you better study it, formally.

Or hire someone who has, the return is worthwhile.

 

[Holmz]

I’m glad that person had a good experience. Maybe Alan has learned a thing or too about customer service.

Buy something else then.

 

[Liberal Democracy]

A, we're playing car analogies now, ok.
Anyone remember 1995's Fiat Coupe?

Thats a case of beer to the moderator or sadly the guy now might be more inclined to a case of wine .. , I was and remain a cheap date .

All car analogies are met with a fine , indulge at ones own risk and cost.

 

[Penelinfi]

Those are the same woofers! And it's even 3 way which I prefer. It's available in silk or beryllium tweeters and mid-range. The video says that their beryllium drivers are not harsh like typical metal tweeters. Do you think that's actually true because I thought metal tweeters sounded really harsh. Do you think I should play it safe and get the silk tweeter version or go with what I think they recommend which is the beryllium?

Good metal tweeters are great. SB beryllium are fine. Haven't heard BlieSMa; they are wider dispersion. I'd assume they are also great

 

[Penelinfi]

All the people worried about solid wood; the speakers are able to be made in MDF or birch ply. People seem to forget this?

The one thing they did do is have a two way with WG tweeter, Purifi and PR early in the mix. Nowadays, there's a heap of variations on this kind of design.

One thing you can do with some of these smaller companies, is get the speaker in almost any colour you want. I'd be hoping that the AsciLabs speakers may offer such options too.

And also Arendal, because black, grey or white is too boring

 

[Billy Budapest]

Buy something else then.

I think that’s the obvious answer, at least until Alan is able to prove himself in light of his past performance.

 

[Holmz]

I think that’s the obvious answer, at least until Alan is able to prove himself in light of his past performance.

He’s been kicked off of this forum.
So there is his forum, and people here that have bought his speakers.
(I came close, but was not able to close it.)

 

[Billy Budapest]

He’s been kicked off of this forum.
So there is his forum, and people here that have bought his speakers.
(I came close, but was not able to close it.)

Right. I meant until he is able to prove himself via a demonstrable track record of good customer service. Anyway, until he gets a U.S. distributor, his products might be a hard sell for U.S. consumers. Some people might take the risk anyway.

 

[Billy Budapest]

He’s been kicked off of this forum.

Also, I’m not sure that’s exactly what happened. The March Audio user still shows up. It’s Alan’s other fake profiles that have been deleted. So I guess if he offers some kind of mea culpa, the possibility of reactivating the profile might still be there. He used to offer a lot of helpful advice and knowledge so as a member, I would welcome his participation. But again, I don’t know if that’s possible. Ask one of the mods.

 

[Holmz]

Also, I’m not sure that’s exactly what happened. The March Audio user still shows up. It’s Alan’s other fake profiles that have been deleted. So I guess if he offers some kind of mea culpa, the possibility of reactivating the profile might still be there. He used to offer a lot of helpful advice and knowledge so as a member, I would welcome his participation. But again, I don’t know if that’s possible. Ask one of the mods.

^I highly doubt it^, and Amir has been pretty clear.

I was kind of excited to see such well made speaker being done within 20km of where I am at.
And basically wanted to get the speakers with the crossover external, and try going with an active crossover system.
I thought we were all good to go and in agreement, however after it went down hill, which was anlso after I got an Octo DAC-8… which is still wrapped up.

Then I decided to go with other speakers.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Right. I meant until he is able to prove himself via a demonstrable track record of good customer service. Anyway, until he gets a U.S. distributor, his products might be a hard sell for U.S. consumers. Some people might take the risk anyway.

I would imagine a US distributor would lead to a substantial increase in selling price, maybe double. Back in the day distributors doubled the price of the foreign products they imported to cover salaries and stock.

 

[Billy Budapest]

I would imagine a US distributor would lead to a substantial increase in selling price, maybe double. Back in the day distributors doubled the price of the foreign products they imported to cover salaries and stock.

It depends on the distributor.

 

[Holmz]

I would imagine a US distributor would lead to a substantial increase in selling price, maybe double. Back in the day distributors doubled the price of the foreign products they imported to cover salaries and stock.

And the additional 30% now.

It depends on the distributor.

And probably (volume of sales)