• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

The REAL Problem of March Audio's Sointuva WG (Review, Measurements and Reinforcements with Klippel device)

thin bLue

Senior Member
Reviewer
Joined
Jul 29, 2019
Messages
352
Likes
1,155
Vague summary

Marchaudio

1.Alan says the OP is lying. the Sointuva WG was fine.

2.Provide some ideas of the driver's problem and how to cure them, as he did on Sointuva WG.
(he's been banned from ASR, so to check his point of view, it's a good idea to visit
DIYaudio https://www.diyaudio.com/
and Marchaudio's own forum http://forum.marchaudio.com/index.php)

The OP

1.Nuyes claims, he had observed some unspecified product defects and Alan don't accept that.

2.Due to complex circumstances, he said had to modify them by directly himself and measurements were taken after modding by directly him self, shows improvements.


------------------

But, I could say this. For the science, It doesn't matter at all what ever happened before, at right this moment. We'd better remind What Our real enemies are. Non of eachother, but the all of Distortions, Nonlinearities, Mechanical limitations are.


Also, I purchased a newest Marchaudio P422 purifi based amp (arrived a few days ago, really neat and clean interior, soon will be measured, then I'll post.), and my Sointuva WGs with personalised paint job.
(one of my friends bought them as well, yes with custom paint work. both of pairs me and friend's are now on progress as I know.)


When my Sointuva WG arrives, I as a detached observer would like to measure a pair of speakrs surely without any damage or alteration with OP.

If the friend I mentioned have will to join this session, we can get well controlled 2 pairs of clean raw data confirmed by 3rd party observers which is good for both Marchaudio and OP.

It will help all of us to figure out what to do.

Cheers.
 
Last edited:

SDC

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
325
Likes
506
Location
S.Korea
Haha, measuring a 380hz frame resonance in the paper woofer then looking for the same resonance in the Aluminium woofer which has a completely redesigned frame, probably to sort out the former issue. I have both drivers in front of me, very different frames.

But Kudos to the apology, and credit where it’s due on the review effort of the speaker.

Sorry for the different woofers used in testing. But I believe the problem is not yet fixed in NAA since the audio show Alan and Lars mentioned was after the NAA. And the new fixed design is not yet mentioned by Lars.

If I missed something Lars quoted else where I sincerely apologize to everybody, especially @Nuyes for wasting ones precious time and resources.

And it would be really helpful if you could share the data of two woofers. I have/had high hopes for the X NAA... Data showing problem fixed would worth more than my embarrassment.
 

Gringoaudio1

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 11, 2019
Messages
567
Likes
719
Location
Calgary Alberta Canada
What a soap opera.
Narcissism and psychopathic personalities with the sociopathic personality are all three in the same category. Narcissists tend to be abusers and users for their personal satisfaction at the expense of using others and collectively turning each against the other from what I read. Tend to have rage episodes if they don't have success with their grand schemes... It's very complex I found.
Both Alan and Erin have shown what I would describe as episodes of ‘narcissistic rage’ undue anger at being defied. I’ve had to live with several of similarly disordered people over the years.
And Erin is using classic projection techniques to try to make it look like it’s Amir with these tendencies. He is doing it to the point of Gaslighting. Quite twisted.
I went back over every post in this thread that Amir made and there’s absolutely nothing that he has to apologize to Erin for. He reiterates why Erin was rightly banned. That’s all I see. And the OP is being overly generous even apologizing to Erin in such a grovelling manner. What a soap opera.
 

Miker 1102

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
May 21, 2021
Messages
235
Likes
127
Well stated, @Sokel. Engineers and techies who don't like the structure and demands of working for other companies, and who try to start their own businesses, often fail because of their poor people, P.R and marketing skills. A prime example of a business partnership that avoided these pitfalls is Apple Computer, where marketing genius Steve Jobs enlisted tech wizard Steve Wozniak and created a global giant that is still going strong 46

What a soap opera.

Both Alan and Erin have shown what I would describe as episodes of ‘narcissistic rage’ undue anger at being defied. I’ve had to live with several of similarly disordered people over the years.
And Erin is using classic projection techniques to try to make it look like it’s Amir with these tendencies. He is doing it to the point of Gaslighting. Quite twisted.
I went back over every post in this thread that Amir made and there’s absolutely nothing that he has to apologize to Erin for. He reiterates why Erin was rightly banned. That’s all I see. And the OP is being overly generous even apologizing to Erin in such a grovelling manner. What a soap opera.
This is an interesting observation. I am a social worker by trade and have worked with extreme people for decades. Audio for some reason seems to have some fringe characters and a really higher degree of narcissistic personality than one would think. I mean I just wanted to learn about how to understand frequency and understand how to explain rationally what I am hearing. Erin helped me do that so I appreciated his data and hard work. After this fiasco thing, I read thru the ban and reached out to him. I basically gave him my unasked for professional observation that he might be slightly frustrated by his audio career not going the way he thought. Amir made mention of the fact he changed when he got the kippel. I think that was a wise an appropriate observation. I don't think these threads should be personal so that's exactly why I made this statement.. like I encouraged Erin that he had all the skills to maybe take the audio to different level. Ambition needs harnessing. I think Erin is an asset to ASR if he could just come off the pride and stop pretending he does not want to be a person of weight in the audio world. This maybe would then get at the heart of the behavior that caused the ban.
 

Gringoaudio1

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 11, 2019
Messages
567
Likes
719
Location
Calgary Alberta Canada
I am sorry I have extended the negativity that is the talk about people and not simply audio here. But this behaviour by these two men has triggered me in ways I didn’t expect. I’ve had to learn about this stuff the hard way. The behaviours are just so ‘textbook’ though.
Last post on people ever.
 

sq225917

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 23, 2019
Messages
1,360
Likes
1,610
If a person feels they have been done an injustice it's entirely natural that they should want to have their voice heard. Whether the view they then try to present is entirely reasonable, logical and stands up to scrutiny is the measure of that person. Facts don't care about our opinions and feelings.

Here's the truth, no one, unless they have purchased a speaker actually 'knows' if it arrived in the state the vendor claimed it left. We can surmise all we like, but we don't know: certainly not on a sample of one.

That said I don't believe that any speaker should be built without some form of semi compliant sealing around all exterior holes, binding posts and driver mounts, and all structural fixings should be supported by suitably hard insert materials. I know nothing about the March speakers and one sample point isn't enough for me to form an opinion.

Ime customers are just as likely to cover their own mistakes with gear through ignorance as vendors are through obfuscation.
 

Absolute

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 5, 2017
Messages
1,084
Likes
2,125
It's difficult enough having a conflict through the written language where there's no body language, tone, gestures or other things to help us pick up the real intention behind a sentence/word.

Psycho-analyzing strangers based on our interpretation of a conflict in the written language? Please, let's not go there.
It's a fun, non-important hobby.
 

Head_Unit

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 27, 2018
Messages
1,338
Likes
688
additional acoustic micro fiber
Which one? It seems like a true miracle worker ha ha! Really it is surprising to me just how very much problem was caused from enclosure resonance, the enclosure doesn't seem anything special or unusual. As for this business of leakage...it can happen, subtly, it is one reason I preferred to use MLSSA to make impedance graphs down to quite low frequencies because if the woofer had not sealed well on test enclosure it would show a rise. But to not have binding posts and all that sealed is just stupid careless.

I'm contemplating making a giant custom subwoofer at one house, this thread makes me realize that to do that well I really need at minimum a good low series resistance impedance measurement capability. Ah...I have not finished reading the whole thread, now I'm wondering if there is an "after sealing" set of impedance curves at the different voltages.
 

Head_Unit

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 27, 2018
Messages
1,338
Likes
688
toured the Muscle Shoals Studio. Highly recommended for anyone who loves music.
Thanks for that, had no idea that was even possible. Will put it on my "secondary bucket list." Me and my kid really enjoyed the Sun Studios tour in Memphis as did two friends who went separately (though it's not a working studio now, more a history tour)
 

Head_Unit

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 27, 2018
Messages
1,338
Likes
688
Screwing into mdf with the proper screw designed for such material is no issue at.
If worried add a little wood glue to the pre drilled holes, let it dry and then install with a little glue on the screw tip.
I've had 0 issues with MDF.
Why let the wood in the holes dry first, then wet on the tip? Not arguing at all, just very curious for my future remembering.
 

fluid

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Messages
691
Likes
1,194
Why let the wood in the holes dry first, then wet on the tip? Not arguing at all, just very curious for my future remembering.
Superglue works to harden up the threads and let the screws go in and out, I used it on one of my speakers where I knew the drivers would be in and out a few times through the build.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2353.jpg
    IMG_2353.jpg
    357.2 KB · Views: 79

ROOSKIE

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
1,912
Likes
3,390
Location
Minneapolis
Why let the wood in the holes dry first, then wet on the tip? Not arguing at all, just very curious for my future remembering.
Because when the hole is reinforced with dry wood glue then it is strong enough to get it quite tight with no stripping. (And minimal MDF dust/shaving falling out of the hole.)
Wood glue on the tip also catches any falling dust leaves a little extra layer behind that will dry solid that certainly feels like a good part of the proccess.

This is all just what I do and so far I have have no issues. Whether or not it is truly all required I don't know.

Just try to create a slightly stronger area in the material and MDF sucks glue up pretty well.

I have used HDF as well and that stuff takes screws very well but I would still do this just because I like it.

I also often use a counter sink bit just a little at the entry of each hole. That keeps the MDF from pulling up and forming a small bulge which sometimes happens and might inpeed a perfectly flush mounted driver. Especially for a cast basket.
That also works then as great funel for getting your glue to go into the hole.

YMMV.
 

restorer-john

Grand Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Messages
12,528
Likes
38,124
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
When it comes to MDF or solid timber, these threaded insert nuts are the preferred mounts for anything that needs a specified fixing torque that is not affected by changes in board thickness due to gassing-off of manufacturing adhesives/binders and/or absorption of moisture resulting in dimensional changes. MDF is remarkably stable in lateral dimensions, but average to poor when it comes to thickness stability.

These inserts are suitable for 16 to 25mm MDF or timber from 20mm and up.

Insert nuts maintain a specific fixing force over the lifetime of the board, assuming correct installation and suitable torquing. ie, they don't come loose or expand the hole they have been jammed into...
nut (Medium).jpeg


The fact that March appears to be using well nuts, means he has little idea about timber or board construction techniques. Furniture construction is vastly different to aerospace.
 

tmtomh

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
2,609
Likes
7,382
It's difficult enough having a conflict through the written language where there's no body language, tone, gestures or other things to help us pick up the real intention behind a sentence/word.

Psycho-analyzing strangers based on our interpretation of a conflict in the written language? Please, let's not go there.
It's a fun, non-important hobby.

Yes, this 100%. Thank you.
 

puppet

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Messages
446
Likes
284
Well ... drilling holes for fasteners has gone out of fashion for awhile now due to the introduction of "fasteners that don't need predrilling".
... but even these are quite capable of blowing out a panel. Always best to drill a hole first .. sized to the root diameter of the fastener. You can't go wrong in mdf ... hardwood, do the same just rub the screw across a bar of soap/candle first.
 

AdamG

Proving your point makes it “Science”.
Moderator
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
4,618
Likes
14,854
Location
Reality
When it comes to MDF or solid timber, these threaded insert nuts are the preferred mounts for anything that needs a specified fixing torque that is not affected by changes in board thickness due to gassing-off of manufacturing adhesives/binders and/or absorption of moisture resulting in dimensional changes. MDF is remarkably stable in lateral dimensions, but average to poor when it comes to thickness stability.

These inserts are suitable for 16 to 25mm MDF or timber from 20mm and up.

Insert nuts maintain a specific fixing force over the lifetime of the board, assuming correct installation and suitable torquing. ie, they don't come loose or expand the hole they have been jammed into...
View attachment 216064

The fact that March appears to be using well nuts, means he has little idea about timber or board construction techniques. Furniture construction is vastly different to aerospace.
For $4K is it unreasonable to expect the use of real solid wood cabinet enclosure versus low cost MDF ? These are bookshelves right? Is that not reasonable in today’s market? At $2k per ? Honest question here.
 

tmtomh

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
2,609
Likes
7,382
For $4K is it unreasonable to expect the use of real solid wood cabinet enclosure versus low cost MDF ? These are bookshelves right? Is that not reasonable in today’s market? At $2k per ? Honest question here.

Not if MDF is believed to have superior properties in terms of year-round/long-term dimensional stability and uniform rigidity.
 

samysound

Senior Member
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
374
Likes
332
Location
USA
For $4K is it unreasonable to expect the use of real solid wood cabinet enclosure versus low cost MDF ? These are bookshelves right? Is that not reasonable in today’s market? At $2k per ? Honest question here.
The Sointuva is available in real wood or mdf options, currently at the same cost. Just fyi.
 
Top Bottom