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The quest for my hyper speaker - Very Large room dilemma

Mr. Widget

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Given that you know that you like the sound of your JBL’s, and high power/compression is an issue, why not simplify and go for the 4367?
I think you will find the 4367 may barely make it SPL-wise. With a rated sensitivity of 94dB/1w and max power handling of 300w, that gives you ~118 dB peak at 1m.

The bi-amped M2 does a bit better with a specified 108dB peak at 8m, but subjectively I do not think they work well when pushed.
 
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aliqaz

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My bad, apparently they rebranded it from "Hyperion" to "HRE1" Specs are listed in the link above. Half the page is loren-ipsum filler text, and they are using a picture of the Jericho J8 in place for the "ILE3" so seems like a very much work-in-progress webpage.

I think Keith is probably the best person to ask, I only interface with them for live sound work, and Keith seems to have a relationship with their home audio endeavors.
I was considering these. However this likely makes them unviable. Also the look, if not finished in a custom fashion, would also not work
 

GXAlan

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I think you will find the 4367 may barely make it SPL-wise. With a rated sensitivity of 94dB/1w and max power handling of 300w, that gives you ~118 dB peak at 1m.

The bi-amped M2 does a bit better with a specified 108dB peak at 8m, but subjectively I do not think they work well when pushed.
My mistake. I missed that max power handling. I think I mentioned that spec before when talking about the Everest in this very thread! (Face palm).

Somewhat interesting that the older vintage XPL200 line handled much more power. But those were less efficient, so 90 dB/2.83V and 800w power handling ends up being the same thing.
 

mcdn

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Considering that we do have more data on the perlesten s towers, considering their higher sensitivity and extremely low distortion, can we get in the ballpark of the desired SPLs? These are the last conventional cone speakers I'm considering.

The Perlisten S7t is designed specifically to reach THX reference at 20ft listening distance in a 6500ft^3 room. The Audioholics review is thorough and includes measurements. If I were you I'd try them at least, given they aren't too expensive, look decent, and have narrow vertical dispersion so may still do what you want in a your bigger space. Plenty of dealerships too. I know you don't want them but a couple of subs tucked away for the very lowest frequencies might be needed (though for modal control this would be a very good idea regardless).

 

sigbergaudio

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I guess that puts horn speakers to the forefront

Not necessarily, a traditional tweeter in a waveguide will also be an option. The coax we use can handle 122dB@1m weighted pink noise (probably even more, max SPL is amp limited in our applications). The amount of energy in the treble in typical music material is way lower than the rest of the spectre. Put simply: You don't need the tweeter to handle 110dB to play music at 110dB.
 
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Da cynics

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It may have already been suggested that...
This has detailed measurements and directional control well down the line
 

fineMen

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It may have already been suggested that...
This has detailed measurements and directional control well down the line
I still think all the discussion is "cynical"? I won't exemplify but don't you think that the requirements pretty much resemble those for smaller art house cinemas? Would it be advisable to look out for used material that is thrown on the second hand market when cinemas are closed or refurbished for THX and other such nonsense? In Europe we have pro/ second hand markets where pros deal such stuff.

Best to get in contact with a pro anyway. He would know, for sure, what to do, for less than 100 per hour of a fee. Take an expert in.
 

fredoamigo

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I still think all the discussion is "cynical"? I won't exemplify but don't you think that the requirements pretty much resemble those for smaller art house cinemas? Would it be advisable to look out for used material that is thrown on the second hand market when cinemas are closed or refurbished for THX and other such nonsense? In Europe we have pro/ second hand markets where pros deal such stuff.

Best to get in contact with a pro anyway. He would know, for sure, what to do, for less than 100 per hour of a fee. Take an expert in.
On the "pro" market of destocking or replacement cinema 9 x out of 10 you will have "in wall" or material has the industrial aspect and I do not think that it is in the specifications of the OP because it is for a room of life which will have to remain pleasant with the glance... what adds difficulty to the difficulty..
 

fineMen

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On the "pro" market of destocking or replacement cinema 9 x out of 10 you will have "in wall" or material has the industrial aspect and I do not think that it is in the specifications of the OP because it is for a room of life which will have to remain pleasant with the glance... what adds difficulty to the difficulty..
And beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We are talking several kilowatts, hundreds of kilograms and tens of kilos in currency. Is it so far fetched to ask a local expert, costing a few hundreds the most for valid, informed, reliable and responsible advice? With supplementing service afterwards if needed. My humble advice to get such advice, instead.
 

AudioJester

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And beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We are talking several kilowatts, hundreds of kilograms and tens of kilos in currency. Is it so far fetched to ask a local expert, costing a few hundreds the most for valid, informed, reliable and responsible advice? With supplementing service afterwards if needed. My humble advice to get such advice, instead.

Sometimes its hard to find a reliable local "expert". Often they dont really know what they are doing and/or are trying to peddle snake oil products for maximum profit.

OP is on right track as ASR is much better source of knowledge with lots of true experts.
 

fineMen

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Sometimes its hard to find a reliable local "expert". Often they dont really know what they are doing and/or are trying to peddle snake oil products for maximum profit.

OP is on right track as ASR is much better source of knowledge with lots of true experts.
For that amount of time spent by many the results look a bit skinny sofar, right? That is why I suggested to invest some effort in finding an expert which could possibly check the venue and would be willing to acknowledge the use case of a sole person listening critically for fun alone ;) The expert could likewise be a studio outfitter or the manufacturer itself, depending on the revenue generated.

(remove reasonable limitations on space, money, sound pressure levels, and all experts chime in; it's a law of nature)
 

fineMen

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For that amount of time spent ...
Wait, as was said that ASR has the real experts. Let's test the local expert! Hire the local, which should not cost more than 100..300 for a first opinion. Neglegible compared to the money to be finally spent. Then after present the problem analysis and recommendations here for in depth scrutiny. The way to go?
 

fredoamigo

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For that amount of time spent by many the results look a bit skinny sofar, right? That is why I suggested to invest some effort in finding an expert which could possibly check the venue and would be willing to acknowledge the use case of a sole person listening critically for fun alone ;) The expert could likewise be a studio outfitter or the manufacturer itself, depending on the revenue generated.

(remove reasonable limitations on space, money, sound pressure levels, and all experts chime in; it's a law of nature)
The first thing to do in my opinion, is to make a complete acoustic assessment of the room to know what is feasible or not.
the dimensions of a room are not enough because according to the nature of the walls a good room can allow itself to go partially without treatment (I said partially). the larger the room, the more important the RT becomes .
Because the OP does not want a big treatment.
 
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sarumbear

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sarumbear

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The Perlisten S7t is designed specifically to reach THX reference at 20ft listening distance in a 6500ft^3 room. The Audioholics review is thorough and includes measurements. If I were you I'd try them at least, given they aren't too expensive, look decent, and have narrow vertical dispersion so may still do what you want in a your bigger space. Plenty of dealerships too. I know you don't want them but a couple of subs tucked away for the very lowest frequencies might be needed (though for modal control this would be a very good idea regardless).

That is one cool speaker. They have optimised the available technology pretty well.
 

sigbergaudio

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jlo

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With a very large venue and a good budget although JBL is of course a good option I would also check out Meyer and listen carefully to Bluehorn .
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/meyer-bluehorn-spins.36806/

https://meyersound.com/product/bluehorn-system/
In Aliqaz's room, a pair of Meyer Acheron Designer with one or two Meyer subwoofers would be a very nice system, linear and (very) powerfull. No JBL (ie M2) can give you same levels without distortion (Meyer mid/hi is a 4 inches driver !)
 

Mr. Widget

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In Aliqaz's room, a pair of Meyer Acheron Designer with one or two Meyer subwoofers would be a very nice system, linear and (very) powerfull. No JBL (ie M2) can give you same levels without distortion (Meyer mid/hi is a 4 inches driver !)
I am also a fan of 4" compression drivers. Last year I brought home a pair of Acheron Designers and compared them with my DIY TAD based speakers that utilize a TAD TH-4003 horn and TD-4003 4" Be compression drivers. FWIW: both of these systems will play stupid loud.

The Acheron Designers are reasonably compact, have significant output capability, and are very well designed. I think a creative individual could dress them up to fit in a living room environment... the Meyer X-400C subs are more of a challenge. I would probably go with in-wall or concealed subs if I went with Acheron Designers.

I have tried the Acheron Designers in my main system without DSP and it wasn't close to the Bluehorns I have heard elsewhere. I realize comparing the Acheron Designers without DSP is unrealistic, but in my comparison I was using my main system which is all analog without EQ so no DSP was available in this comparison.

Interestingly while the 60" in room on-axis measurements of the Acheron Designer is objectively better than the same measurement of my TAD DIY system, subjectively I much prefer the sound of the TADs. I realize that off-axis measurements would be instructive here, due to the sizes of these speakers it was impractical and I wasn't out to prove a point. I was deciding if I wanted to make a change.

I would be willing to make that change with the Bluehorns, but my banker is not on board. Of course, then there is the aesthetic challenge as well.

Widget & Acheron Designer sm.jpg
Acheron Design 60%22 Axis 1sm.jpg
Widget 60%22 Axis 1sm.jpg
 

jlo

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I never had opportunity to compare side by side BlueHorn and Designer, so I cannot comment.
But the Designer model with a competent EQ (IIR or FIR) is a superb solution, and much cheaper....
I also heard TAD in pro studios but I was more impressed by Designer's balanced timbre and dynamics (Designer measurements are generally better but this may depend on specific TAD systems: I only measured TSM1 2401 and TSM2).
 
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gnarly

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I didn't know Meyer markets to residential, being entirely into DIY since buying gear from them a while back. This thread made me check their site...

Realizing @aliqaz is after a stereo rig, not home theatre..
I still wonder how the hell much this system would run for?
You guys have any idea?
Meyer 7.1.4.JPG
 
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