The problem with Audyssey Dynamic EQ

[No_hair_left]

I tried this and it just won't work for me, tried resetting the avr but it still is boosting the rears even when set to off, must be a bug.

 

[Hayabusa]

Overall I'm quite happy with what DEQ does to the frequency response (boosting bass and the high end); but I don't like what it does to the surround channel levels. I just made some measurements with different Dynamic EQ settings to confirm my impression that it boosts the surround channels too much.
(Please ignore the generally lumpy response - this isn't about that and I realised that my minidsp sub settings were messed up part way through).

For the centre and front channels the level of the mid frequencies remains fairly constant with different DEQ settings.
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View attachment 223958

But for the surround channels it also boosts the overall level...
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The situation is even worse when listening at lower levels...
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In the kHz range I think the level should stay roughly where the black line (DEQ off) is. With the DEQ set at 0dB offset it boosts the surrounds by at least 6dB, relative to the fronts.

I assume this is how it is intended to operate (and not an implementation error in my Denon AVC-X receiver). But for me, since I sit a lot closer to the surrounds than the front speakers the boosted surrounds are pretty obnoxious.

For quiet listening in the evening the surrounds are close to me and louder. If I set volume based on the surrounds the centre channel is too quiet - reducing dialogue intelligibility (a common problem). Alternatively if I set volume based on the centre channel I get blasted by loud music and effects from the surrounds, eg when the adverts come on.

Edit: Added poll

I my current version on the AV10 has an option to control this and set the amount correct done to surround channels, even to none

Edit: stupid me did not see it was already discussed earlier

 

[TheZebraKilledDarwin]

"Quick Select" presets on Denons store the dyn.EQ settings and the individual channel levels (even per input source).
Therefore presets for a low and a high high master volume setting, for film and music, do the job nicely to have the preferred dyn EQ strenght with the preferred surround channel levels.

 

[Acerun]

Adding dynamic EQ set at 15 after spending almost 2 years dialing in my system and then finally getting there... Never with dynamic EQ... Adding it for the final mile, realizing that I always listen to less than reference level... One of the most impactful adjustments I've ever made.

 

[PhantomCentaur]

Does anyone have Dynamic EQ on with Surround Level cCmpensation set to off and still feel like surrounds are boosted a tiny bit (like a couple dB)? I have a Cinema 50, and it seems like I have to tone down the surrounds on my 5.2.4 set-up by ~2 dB to level match them with the fronts. I saw a post on Reddit saying roughly the same thing before I think the OP deleted it. ~2 dB is way better than the 8.5 dB that the Heavy/default was set to, but I assumed off would be off.

Is anyone else experiencing this?

 

[Acerun]

Does anyone have Dynamic EQ on with Surround Level cCmpensation set to off and still feel like surrounds are boosted a tiny bit (like a couple dB)? I have a Cinema 50, and it seems like I have to tone down the surrounds on my 5.2.4 set-up by ~2 dB to level match them with the fronts. I saw a post on Reddit saying roughly the same thing before I think the OP deleted it. ~2 dB is way better than the 8.5 dB that the Heavy/default was set to, but I assumed off would be off.

Is anyone else experiencing this?

I didn't know there was a surround level compensation setting...but yes surrounds get boosted. I just adjust to taste in Levels.

 

[PhantomCentaur]

I didn't know there was a surround level compensation setting...but yes surrounds get boosted. I just adjust to taste in Levels.

Yeah, it's only for some receivers, but the firmware update that added Surround Level Compensation was added just in the last couple weeks. There was some discussion here over the past couple pages.

 

[Acerun]

Yeah, it's only for some receivers, but the firmware update that added Surround Level Compensation was added just in the last couple weeks. There was some discussion here over the past couple pages.

I see. Well, I have the X8500H and I think they are done with firmware updates for that model...so it seems..

 

[ciukacz]

Does anyone have Dynamic EQ on with Surround Level cCmpensation set to off and still feel like surrounds are boosted a tiny bit (like a couple dB)? I have a Cinema 50, and it seems like I have to tone down the surrounds on my 5.2.4 set-up by ~2 dB to level match them with the fronts. I saw a post on Reddit saying roughly the same thing before I think the OP deleted it. ~2 dB is way better than the 8.5 dB that the Heavy/default was set to, but I assumed off would be off.

Is anyone else experiencing this?

latest firmware (6800-0155-d053-8880) for denon avc-x3800h has a bug in "surround level compensation".

when the new setting is set to off it works correctly at and above (louder than) -40db volume with reference level offset (rlo) set 0. if i turn down the volume from -40db to -40.5db surround speakers get an abrupt boost. the entire purpose of that feature is to not boost the surrounds or limit how much they are boosted. with off there should be no boost at all and no abrupt volume increase for surrounds when decreasing master volume.

the threshold is different for different rlo settings. for rlo 5 it is -45db, rlo 10 -50db, rlo 15 -55db.
that is on a factory reset avr with a fresh multeq-x calibration.

another user in audyssey thread over at avs confirmed the same on his x4800h, he stated rougly ~7db boost at -40.5 rlo 0

 

[TheZebraKilledDarwin]

I don't know, if this a phenomenon only in my room, or a psychoacoustic phenomenon if the bass does not go down to 20, but I had recognized much less volume dependent bass reception, since I had made sure, the highest SPL occurs down at 20 Hz.
Before that setup I always felt a lack of bass, when playing softly and DynEQ seemed to fill up the low end.
But since I had made sure the higher bass is flat but the bass raises steadily only from 80 to 20 (20 roughly 5-6 dB louder than 80), also at very low levels it always feels as if the bottom was fully there.

So in case you have a system with a low end reaching down to 20, you might want to try to reblance it towards a similar slope and see, if the perceived lack of bass at low volumes is reduced.

 

[RocShemp]

This is great addition indeed. I sent message to Audyssey directly requiring this few months ago. Never got reply back from them, but now it`s added.

Surround Level Compensation​

If the volume setting on the unit is below the reference level when using Audyssey Dynamic EQ, the volume of the channels located behind the listener is amplified in accordance with that volume setting to maintain the surround experience for the listener.

Surround Level Compensation can adjust the amplification level.

Heavy (Default):	Surround and rear channels are increased in level up to 8.5dB based on the master volume, when Dynamic EQ is on.
Medium:	Surround and rear channels are increased in level up to 5.6dB based on the master volume, when Dynamic EQ is on.
Light:	Surround and rear channels are increased in level up to 2.8dB based on the master volume, when Dynamic EQ is on.
Off:	Surround and rear channels are not increased when Dynamic EQ is on.

That's really cool. Are there any plans to roll this update out for slightly older models (I'm rocking a Denon AVR-X6700H)? Or am I outta luck?

 

[RocShemp]

From what I've read, Dynamic EQ boosts the surrounds by 1 dB per every 5 dB below reference you set your master volume. So if I usually listen to movies at -30 dBFS, my surrounds are boosted by 6 dB. Given the new Surround Level Compensation setting wasn't added to my Denon AVR-X6700H, can I simply use the Channel Level Adjust of a given input of my receiver to lower the surrounds by 6 dB to counteract the DEQ boost?

Also, does DEQ also affect the Front Wides, or only the surrounds?

 

[Oddball]

These are all excellent questions. I would like to know the answers, if for nothing else academic reasons. I was never really patient enough to figure out DEQ and what it really does. And really never felt like this was a solution I really needed on top of my bass management.

 

[dlaloum]

These are all excellent questions. I would like to know the answers, if for nothing else academic reasons. I was never really patient enough to figure out DEQ and what it really does. And really never felt like this was a solution I really needed on top of my bass management.

A few years back, when I was still in the Audyssey camp, I used to use DEQ quite frequently for exactly what it is designed for - watching movies late at night... at lower volume levels due to others sleeping in the house...

Movies are recorded to reference levels, so we have a known baseline, to which DEQ then applies standard perception curves based on the listening level compared to the reference level.

It was always very variable with TV and Music where the reference level was absent, some recordings at higher than ref, others lower - with the inputs all over the place, it was often best to simply turn it off with those sources.

One of the reasons I find the Monoprice HTP-1 of interest, is that in addition to Dirac (and separate from it) it has a loudness feature.

So that separates the subjective perception levels from the Room EQ and allows both to be applied separately or simultaneously.... this is what D&M need to implement in their AVR's! (Or convince Audyssey to work with them to separate out DEQ from XT/XT32, so it can be applied on its own!)

 

[Chromatischism]

From what I've read, Dynamic EQ boosts the surrounds by 1 dB per every 5 dB below reference you set your master volume. So if I usually listen to movies at -30 dBFS, my surrounds are boosted by 6 dB. Given the new Surround Level Compensation setting wasn't added to my Denon AVR-X6700H, can I simply use the Channel Level Adjust of a given input of my receiver to lower the surrounds by 6 dB to counteract the DEQ boost?

Yes, you can.

Also, does DEQ also affect the Front Wides, or only the surrounds?

If your question is regarding the surround boost, then it shouldn't affect front wides--but your testing can easily confirm it. Measure and let us know.