The Pineapple Thief – It Leads To This – Comparison Blu-ray stereo , 5.1, Dolby Atmos, Tidal MAX, CD. Is the blu-ray the new “audiophile” media?

[Jean.Francois]

It does still look a lot more dynamic than the CD master.

I answered a little too quickly.
Indeed, I propose this rewording which seems clearer to me: For the blu-ray stereo track, it is indeed a master without dynamic limiter unlike the CD and Tidal versions. This is why the Blu-ray stereo track is the most dynamic.

 

[kemmler3D]

I answered a little too quickly.
Indeed, I propose this rewording which seems clearer to me: For the blu-ray stereo track, it is indeed a master without dynamic limiter unlike the CD and Tidal versions. This is why the Blu-ray stereo track is the most dynamic.

I think I would restate my original comment, with a little visual guide this time.

While you don't see the entire waveform hitting the limiter threshold in the Blu-ray Stereo mix like it does in the CD or Tidal mix, it's pretty obvious that there is a limiter involved, especially when you look at the same sections in the Atmos downmix. In the atmos mix, the "frontier" of the peaks is not flat. In the stereo mix, it is. This is a telltale sign of a limiter at work, just with a much higher threshold setting.

What's interesting is the bottom of the waveform doesn't show the same flattened "frontier" shape. This tells us that the limited peaks are transient with a positive polarity, probably snare / cymbal hits. Limiting those by a few dB is probably not very detrimental to the sense of dynamics.

And like I said, even if the limiter isn't actually effecting gain reduction (i.e. flattened peaks) there is always a limiter on the master track to avoid inadvertent clipping, even if the mix looks like the Atmos mix, one will be there for safety.

 

[valerianf]

To be sure that there is no measurement setting issue I am asking for a double measurement with Amazon HD, if possible.
There is a setting in the Amazon player that enable equalization level between tracks.
Is it possible to do one measurement with the equalization inhibited and compare the dynamic ?
You may need to have an genuine Amazon player to see this setting.

 

[Jean.Francois]

I think I would restate my original comment, with a little visual guide this time.

View attachment 375134

While you don't see the entire waveform hitting the limiter threshold in the Blu-ray Stereo mix like it does in the CD or Tidal mix, it's pretty obvious that there is a limiter involved, especially when you look at the same sections in the Atmos downmix. In the atmos mix, the "frontier" of the peaks is not flat. In the stereo mix, it is. This is a telltale sign of a limiter at work, just with a much higher threshold setting.

What's interesting is the bottom of the waveform doesn't show the same flattened "frontier" shape. This tells us that the limited peaks are transient with a positive polarity, probably snare / cymbal hits. Limiting those by a few dB is probably not very detrimental to the sense of dynamics.

And like I said, even if the limiter isn't actually effecting gain reduction (i.e. flattened peaks) there is always a limiter on the master track to avoid inadvertent clipping, even if the mix looks like the Atmos mix, one will be there for safety.

Yes, there is a limiter for the stereo track on the bluray, but it limits much less than the other stereo versions, as the waveforms confirm.
I agree with you, it's important to be precise.
It's worth noting the effort that's been made on the bluray version by offering a version with more dynamics, and not simply by lowering the level of a stereo master limited in dynamics as can be seen on other blu-rays.

Enjoy listening,

 

[kemmler3D]

Yes, there is a limiter for the stereo track on the bluray, but it limits much less than the other stereo versions, as the waveforms confirm.
I agree with you, it's important to be precise.
It's worth noting the effort that's been made on the bluray version by offering a version with more dynamics, and not simply by lowering the level of a stereo master limited in dynamics as can be seen on other blu-rays.

Enjoy listening,

Agreed, and thanks for posting these comparisons!

 

[Jean.Francois]

To be sure that there is no measurement setting issue I am asking for a double measurement with Amazon HD, if possible.
There is a setting in the Amazon player that enable equalization level between tracks.
Is it possible to do one measurement with the equalization inhibited and compare the dynamic ?
You may need to have an genuine Amazon player to see this setting.

I've already made this comparison with the Amazon player, but also with players from other streaming services. The players adjust the level of the song, not the dynamics, which is why there's a recommended loudness level between -13 LUFS and -16 LUFS depending on the streaming service, which corresponds to the reference level for adjusting the sound level.

 

[Snoopy]

I really don't want physical media anymore. The question is why wouldn't they just release 1) not crushed stereo stream 2) Atmos stream / download.
I'd love some proper Atmos music.

I get this point but the industry still needs physical media to reach a wider customer base and make expensive boxsets sellable.

I mean would you spend 90-140 bucks on a Beatles boxset with a book, a few postcards and a download code for the tracks ? But throw in 1-2 Blu-ray’s and 4-6 CDs and you get the collectors

And if you sell the music for much less it might not be worth it for the label.

And streaming alone ? I also like streaming services but I can’t imagine that whole concept will not implode at some point.

Only so many people will listen to a 27 CD set from bob Dylan on qobuz any even less will probably purchase it there for the equal price of a CD boxset.

So I’m fine with buying Blu-ray boxsets.

 

[keenly]

Exactly the opposite of me. Physical media is very strongly my preference.

Yep, same here.

 

[keenly]

This album is very good, and has 2 great atmos mixes. Bruce Soord is the man. Get the blu ray.