The Odyssey (Review)

[MAB]

@Sokel has called me out for saying that Helen of Troy, (mythical though she was), would not have been a Black women in Homer's imagination. Sokel makes a reasoned argument that bronze age Greeks would have been aware of Black individuals. But such individuals would have been rare north of Egypt and Dark Age Greeks, (Homer's era), weren't as cosmopolitan as the Minoans

Sokel is also correct that color was no big deal in those days. OTOH, Nolan's choice of a Black woman for HoT is gratuitous pandering to the 21st century imperative of "Woke".

Sokel says judgmentally that the Minoan was the "most the beautiful civilization ever". This isn't provable and some recent scholarship casts some doubt on the long-presume benign character of the Minoans.

I understand the moderator's choice to cut of direct replies to Sokel's post but he (or she) will need to delete this current post to shut me up.

I can put you on ignore and get you to STFU though.
Good grief dude.

 

[Somafunk]

Poor wee Gorgonzola, so easily triggered by what he/she deems DEI.

Easiest use of the ignore function ever

 

[AdrianusG]

He generally makes good to excellent movies. Seems people making definitive comments about a movie they have not bothered to see.

He sure does ,

Except Tenet though, which really didn't do it for me

 

[WillBrink]

He sure does ,

Except Tenet though, which really didn't do it for me

I didn't see it myself.

 

[WillBrink]

Just watched it in 70mm at the Melbourne IMAX with my fiancee. Was a good mix of perspectives as I read it in high school and she never studied greek mythology at all, went in completely fresh, and we both loved it. The audio was an absolute sensory onslaught, in a good way because the IMAX cinema could handle it. In a poorly setup/tuned/calibrated cinema I could imagine it being an absolute mess. The bass levels were so big, yet clean for so much of the intense scenes, the immersion was incredible.
I won't spoil anything in here, but Nolan definitely made ballsy moves in some of the lighting choices, and I thought they just added to the immersion. I highly recommend just avoid reviews good and bad, go in without any pre-judgement, and just enjoy it, but try find a cinema at least with a solid sound setup.

That might explain the wide range of comments about problematic audio of that movie we are hearing about. Many complaints on that one.

 

[whereisbrian]

I also watched and enjoyed *The Odyssey*.

The film can be viewed on several levels.
It offers a reflection on war, betrayal, hubris, and destiny, for instance.
In this regard, the spirit of the epic poem is respected—particularly the constant interaction with the gods and the sense of epic tragedy.

There is something for everyone: adventure, action, fantasy, and combat.
That said, the film’s overall tone isn't exactly cheerful.
Death is omnipresent.

The beautiful Helen is Black—a choice that managed to annoy certain narrow-minded killjoys here in France.
But nowhere is it written that she couldn't be Black

 

[WillBrink]

I also watched and enjoyed *The Odyssey*.

The film can be viewed on several levels.
It offers a reflection on war, betrayal, hubris, and destiny, for instance.
In this regard, the spirit of the epic poem is respected—particularly the constant interaction with the gods and the sense of epic tragedy.

There is something for everyone: adventure, action, fantasy, and combat.
That said, the film’s overall tone isn't exactly cheerful.
Death is omnipresent.

The beautiful Helen is Black—a choice that managed to annoy certain narrow-minded killjoys here in France.
But nowhere is it written that she couldn't be Black

I find some of the other casting choices more objectionable, but if they played their roles well where it doesn't take me out of the movie, I don't care. The fact there's not a single Greek actor in the Greek based story means the objections regarding authenticity fall flat for me. My issue with any movie where they attempt to stuff it with well known easily recognizable actors is I don't see the character, I see the actor and it takes me out of the movie. Dune had that problem for me. I thought what could have been great movies were good movies due to the casting. Adding to the sillyness of this one, what Greeks thought of the movie via the NYT:

Here’s What Greeks Think of Christopher Nolan’s ‘The Odyssey’

Before its release, some in the country were highly skeptical about the new depiction of a beloved tale. But many who saw it over opening weekend came back with positive reviews.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Chanur]

I thought the trailer with the Trojan horse was pretty compelling and the reviews seem good enough to give it a go. The hard part is justifying the low 3-figure outlay it would take to get a babysitter and go see it in 70mm...

I used to be an avid movie goer, going once or twice a month. It's so expensive now and so many new movies are crap. I just wait for it to come on demand on Amazon or something and buy it for 30 bucks. It's much cheaper than going to the movies and I can watch it on my system in the comfort of my home. Cinema is dead to me.

As for this movie I lost interest when I saw the casting.

 

[Sokel]

I also watched and enjoyed *The Odyssey*.

The film can be viewed on several levels.
It offers a reflection on war, betrayal, hubris, and destiny, for instance.
In this regard, the spirit of the epic poem is respected—particularly the constant interaction with the gods and the sense of epic tragedy.

There is something for everyone: adventure, action, fantasy, and combat.
That said, the film’s overall tone isn't exactly cheerful.
Death is omnipresent.

The beautiful Helen is Black—a choice that managed to annoy certain narrow-minded killjoys here in France.
But nowhere is it written that she couldn't be Black

Your review seems fair and a chance to go watch it.

Odyssey, in my view was always about winning fate by pure mind power, after all the main character may have been decorated by many adjectives but it's his strong mind that always comes first.

That's even stronger when one thinks that comes from a world that bravery, power and wealth were the main things to admire and in contrary, it was that exact mind that won the war.
He's almost an anti-hero, coming from his small kingdom, nothing near to the mighty Mycenaeans which in fact are actually real people, not fiction as others, there are elaborate graves one can visit there, Treasury of Atreus for example (Agamemnon's tomb) is massive and very Egyptian-like but there's controversy about it) , one that faced every challenge (from stunning Circe's beauty and charm , a long challenge admittedly, who's to blame him, to the pure terror of mythical monsters and Gods) and finally made it.

Nostos is not only about its home, is about himself, the "other" Odysseas that left back home, is the seek of his youth and ideals that he brutally compromised so he can win and get back alive.

Myth and ancients facts aside though, to interpret (or re-invent) such a universal masterpiece without showing (even brutally exposing) your own soul is a challenge of its own.
And from what I'm reading around Nolan is a good soul and that's good enough for me.

 

[AussieAus]

That might explain the wide range of comments about problematic audio of that movie we are hearing about. Many complaints on that one.

Yeah it really seems like Nolan is going deeper on making his movies work well in IMAX with their particular big time DTS setups and every other cinema can just suffer.

Oh also as an aside to The Odyssey... because we saw it in IMAX we got lucky enough to see ~5min of completed footage from Dune part 3 beforehand... HOLY HELL it was insane. My jaw was genuinely agape the whole time

 

[pderousse]

Your POV is valid and well expressed however it isn't mine.

I object in general to eccentric morie interpretations of both classics and more recent literature. What I prefer, (philistine as I may be), is rigorous adherence to the author's plot and ethos. I have yet to see Nolan's new Odyssey though I probably will. What I have seen is the likes movie adaptations of J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings great novels. And especially objectionable the ridiculously over-blown Hobbit series.

Regarding Peter Jackson's three LoTR movies, I objected to many thing, beginning with the fact Frodo Baggins being as guy in his early 20's whereas Tolkien's character 50 y/o at the time of the quest. There were many other very objectionable plot and character changes, One of the screenwriters, I believe Philippa Boyens, said that "Tolkien wasn't a real writer" and in effect that she knew better what audiences would want ... I thought, "What an arrogant and presumptuous bitch!!". Needless to say Tolkien was one of the most read authors of fiction of the 20th century.

Sorry, but at the risk of being considered bigoted and racist I have to bring up the DEI issue. Nowadays it seem compulsory to include actors racial origin that at totally implausible in the original author's story. I hear the Helen of Troy in Nolan's Odyssey is a Black woman. You don't have to be a racist to realize the the 7th or 8th century BCE Homer (or whoever the author) would likely never have seen a Black person -- or if perchance he had, that he would have imagined Helen as a Black woman.

Another example of grotesquely anachronistic inclusion of DEI actors is Black actors as elves and dwarves in Amazon's Rings of Power series. That, along with the screenwriters' gross distortion of Tolkien's time lines rendered that series offence and unwatchable for me.

When you read these books you care so much about, be sure to pass over the parts where Homer ‘writes’ about Ethiopians, or the fact that Poseidon dines with them, or Odysseus’ dark skinned squire Eurybates, or Helen’s knowledge in book 4 of Egyptian drugs (which she got while there) or the long tradition in Euripides, Herodotus and Stesochorus that Helen spent the war in Egypt and never went to Troy. Homer, which means the Greek tradition of epic poetry, was well aware of black skinned people. Imagining the alternative is absurd. In fact, you possess, special knowledge, unknown to anyone else, if you know a) that Homer was a person (Plato didn’t) or b) that “he” never knew a black person, or c) that he did not imagine Helen to be black. There are experts in these fields, but you may persist in your beliefs.

 

[DWPress]

Haven't seen it yet, debating if the hour drive is worth seeing it at closest IMAX. Last time it was too loud for me as well.

It's a project that sits a little too close to home for me. Back in 2009 I worked on (what was supposed to be) a high end fine press edition based on the Alexander Pope translation. Double column layout in English and Porson Greek. I ended up leaving the project after major creative differences with the money behind the project but had already lost countless months in layout coordinating two drastically different alphabets (no, I can't read Greek lol). The book ended up being printed in China on clay coat paper and the double volume set comes in at close to 25lbs. Didn't sell and ended up in remainders in the rich guys warehouse!

So if Nolan wants to take a shot at a nearly 3000 year old story grouping originated by a homeless bard traveling and recounting the exploits of Odysseus in the oral tradition and has since been retold by countless others and do it Hollywood then there is definitely an audience for it.

Probably not the same people who buy my books though.

 

[MattHooper]

I was pretty turned off with the trailers - didn’t particularly like the casting choices nor the dialogue nor the general look.

Although I would see it because I would like to see anything Nolan does.

It looks like from all the reviews and descriptions that the trailer doesn’t do it justice at all. It sounds incredible.! I’d love to see it.

 

[JeffS7444]

I'm not much of a movie-goer, but this summer, the pickings have been good, and the weather has been hot. So far, I've watched three movies on three separate occasions at my local Cinemark; weekdays, and late-afternoon, so as to have less of a crowd, and to escape the hottest part of the day. And wonder of wonders, the audience was on their best behavior on all three occasions: No talking, no glowing screens, nothing more than the occasional rustle of popcorn.

Having just returned from an early evening showing of The Odyssey, my impression is: Great! Haven't read the epic poem itself, but was familiar with more dramatic episodes.

 

[amper42]

I just came back from Odyssey.
I'm not a fan.
It was the most boring, self indulgent movie I have seen all year.
Bad acting, uninteresting and undeveloped plot line was the norm.
Based on the interviews I saw before the movie I thought it would be great.
If I had gone by myself I would have left half way.

I like the Batman movies Nolan did.
But Tenet was another seriously boring, stupid movie from his direction.

Can't say it's worth 3 hours or even one.

 

[Holmz]

It better be good because it is among the top 5 of the classics I've read, a real favorite. It has fantasy, sensation, destiny, duty all rapped up in action packed epic journey. If you wait to see it or it gets mediocre reviews definitely read the book.

Is Ceventes in your top 5 list?

 

[Timcognito]

Is Ceventes in your top 5 list?

No but maybe top 10. Took three quarter series of Western Heritage 10? books in philosophy classes to fulfill my English and some general requirements at UC Berkeley to get my Mechanical Engineering degree and meet girls, as there were only a few in the 400 student Engineering Dept. The Top Ten is a bit mythical as it is too small, shifting,and includes modern classics like Grapes of Wrath, Moby Dick, Brave New World and others. Odyssey is a solid top five though. I used to get girlfriends to type papers in exchange for work on car repairs or help with math and such as my dyslexia and those old typewriters was a never ending nightmare.

 

[amper42]

No but maybe top 10. Took three quarter series of Western Heritage 10? books in philosophy classes to fulfill my English and some general requirements at UC Berkeley to get my Mechanical Engineering degree and meet girls, as there were only a few in the 400 student Engineering Dept. The Top Ten is a bit mythical as it is too small, shifting,and includes modern classics like Grapes of Wrath, Moby Dick, Brave New World and others. Odyssey is a solid top five though. I used to get girlfriends to type papers in exchange for work on car repairs or help with math and such as my dyslexia and those old typewriters was a never ending nightmare.

You can be a fan of the Odyssey book and still dislike the boring 2026 Odyssey movie directed by Nolan.

Three hours of plot that drags on with no exciting connection between scenes and the few interesting parts like the witch and giant are done poorly by any modern measure. The old 1963 Jason and the Argonauts film was better than the self indulgent Nolan Odyssey. I'm beginning to realize any film longer than 2.5 hours has to have a great story line that's incredibly good to justify that length. In reality, it's more likely a super long movie has a director with no self imposed rules and considers the audience time worthless.

If you are going to keep me in my seat for three hours it needs to be an exciting show that keeps my attention. Instead, with Nolan you get boring, drawn out, repetitive scenes with poor dialog. Siting through it reminds me of being in detention. Worst directed movie I have seen in a long while.

 

[Timcognito]

You can be a fan of the Odyssey book and still dislike the boring 2026 Odyssey movie directed by Nolan.

No doubt but I have not seen the movie yet and fear it will not do justice to the story. Reading it and discussing with others and writing about it for a class it at age 18 was an epiphany for me, and I would become more jaded as we read and debated other great classics, The Republic, The Prince, The Aeneid and many others . Kind of a coming of age thing and very dear to me.

 

[pderousse]

It is a great movie. I’ve been teaching Classics my whole career of about 30 years and there have only been poor Odysseys (not counting oblique versions like Oh Brother or Interstellar which are also the Odyssey). What Nolan achieves is extraordinary in its fidelity to the flash-back based narrative structure of the original, the culture, the religion, all parts of the story (minus a couple scenes), plus bits of the Iliou Persis, Aeneid book 2, the Telegony, character back stories and even the cultural significance of the Trojan War for later generations of Classical era Greeks.. He even fills in some plot holes in the Odyssey with plausible interpretations, such as Odysseus’ survivor guilt and ptsd being metaphors for his wandering. The Odyssey's theme of Xenia - ‘guest friendship’ /axeneia - inhospitableness is taken a bit far when Odysseus imagines he violated this “law of Zeus’ with his idea of the horse, and that is what is responsible for the forthcoming historical civilization collapse into the Dark Ages (1100-800 BC), and some costumes are a bit weird; however, It’s amazing that Nolan communicates such a culturally-bound story so clearly in under three hours without cgi. It won’t be for everyone (Nolan only makes epics), but this will be the best Odyssey in our lifetimes. Bring your noise-canceling headphones.