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The New Sennheiser HD600 vs the Old Sennheiser HD600?

simplywyn

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I don't think price is particularly influential in sound quality, and research backs that up. If I were you I'd just focus on measurements....smooth frequency responses, deep bass extension or ability to EQ up the bass without distortion creeping up (so looking at distortion measurements). I'd correlate that former stuff with reports on "soundstage" of the headphone to get a picture of how the whole headphone would be. I'd choose on that basis and only consider headphones up to your max personal allowable limit. I'd also determine size dimensions of the headphone earcups to make sure your ears can fit inside, and read up on any notes people make re fitting/(comfort) issues. I'd lump that all together and audition some headphones from that shortlist, but don't let price be your guide at any point, just use price for setting a maximum acceptable limit, but otherwise forget about that until you are auditioning your shortlist of headphones, as I suppose at that point you would weigh in price into the equation....because all things being equal if you find two headphones are just as preferable as the other, then I guess you'd choose the cheapest of the two headphones. That has been my approach for almost all of my headphone purchases, combined with the fact that I wanted some "best" examples of most of the different types of over ear headphone: closed back / open back / planar / dynamic.

Interesting points thank you
 
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Robbo99999

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I have a HD600 and a hifiman 400i, lots of people say 400i is better than HD600... I would say it's only 6/10. Any opinions on what I'm hearing?
I have HE4XX which is quite similar to 400i, and I enjoy my HE4XX more than the HD600.....but this is after EQ'ing both. HE4XX has better soundstage than the HD600 whilst also having significantly clearer and deeper bass (once EQ'd). The HD600 doesn't really respond well to bass EQ and certainly not down to 20Hz like the HE4XX can do. EQ'ing the HE4XX also sorts out the the slightly dodgy response above 1kHz. If I was to have to use headphones without EQ I would prefer the HD600 though, because it's more accurate in sound to me and has pretty much no significant problems with the frequency response at stock. I can definitely understand why you'd enjoy the 400i more than the HD600, especially after EQ.
 
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Robbo99999

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The Beats Pro costs $400. :facepalm:
True, the Beats Pro frequency response looks a bit messed up so that could well fit with the research that price does not indicate sound quality, but it does fix very nicely to the Harman Curve after EQ, but I've got no idea what they sound like once EQ'd to the Harman Curve as I don't know anything about the Beats Pro. Here's the frequency response for the Beats Pro & Oratory's EQ of it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3mgo8o7ejupj71b/Beats Pro.pdf?dl=0
 

Blank Verse

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True, the Beats Pro frequency response looks a bit messed up so that could well fit with the research that price does not indicate sound quality, but it does fix very nicely to the Harman Curve after EQ, but I've got no idea what they sound like once EQ'd to the Harman Curve as I don't know anything about the Beats Pro. Here's the frequency response for the Beats Pro & Oratory's EQ of it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3mgo8o7ejupj71b/Beats Pro.pdf?dl=0
I know it might sound snobbish on my part to say this, but I will never put a product with the name Beats on my head. I also tend to believe that using EQ to compensate for the natural frequency response of headphones defeats the purpose, though I see why some people would disagree. The Oratory EQ concept is interesting and I might try to use it on my Sony MDR-7506 just to test how well it works in changing the character of the headphones, but I feel that if I want to listen to a more refined headphone I would simply use one of my other pairs instead.
 
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Robbo99999

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I know it might sound snobbish on my part to say this, but I will never put a product with the name Beats on my head. I also tend to believe that using EQ to compensate for the natural frequency response of headphones defeats the purpose, though I see why some people would disagree. The Oratory EQ concept is interesting and I might try to use it on my Sony MDR-7506 just to test how well it works in changing the character of the headphones, but I feel that if I want to listen to a more refined headphone I would simply use one of my other pairs instead.
Ideally you'd choose a headphone that doesn't require massive amounts of software EQ, however I think it's darn hard to produce a headphone and create a hardware solution (inherent in it's design) that manipulates the sound to follow the "complicated" Harman Curve, so I think in reality software EQ will always be required to fine tune certain parts of the frequency response.....that is until some active headphones are produced that have EQ capabilities within the headphone itself. There are already noise cancelling headphones that are active headphones that manipulate the frequency response when turned on.....ie they have different (& often better) frequency responses when turned on in active mode rather than passive.

When I first joined this site one of the first threads I created I was exploring whether EQ'ing your headphones was "worth it", and I created a poll within that thread, and 91% of the people here thought it was worth EQ'ing your headphones:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/is-eqing-headphones-worth-it.11523/
I know from my experience that EQ'ing headphones is absolutely worth it, and most people here experience the same. Note: that's an old thread of mine and my EQ for my K702 has moved on, is more refined, and is more legitimate now....that thread was shortly after I joined this site and I've learned a lot since then both in technical points and experience.
 

Blank Verse

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Ideally you'd choose a headphone that doesn't require massive amounts of software EQ, however I think it's darn hard to produce a headphone and create a hardware solution (inherent in it's design) that manipulates the sound to follow the "complicated" Harman Curve, so I think in reality software EQ will always be required to fine tune certain parts of the frequency response.....that is until some active headphones are produced that have EQ capabilities within the headphone itself. There are already noise cancelling headphones that are active headphones that manipulate the frequency response when turned on.....ie they have different (& often better) frequency responses when turned on in active mode rather than passive.

When I first joined this site one of the first threads I created I was exploring whether EQ'ing your headphones was "worth it", and I created a poll within that thread, and 91% of the people here thought it was worth EQ'ing your headphones:
https://www.audios

ciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/is-eqing-headphones-worth-it.11523/
I know from my exMonitor vs K501perience that EQ'ing headphones is absolutely worth it, and most people here experience the same. Note: that's an old thread of mine and my EQ for my K702 has moved on, is more refined, and is more legitimate now....that thread was shortly after I joined this site and I've learned a lot since then both in technical points and experience.
Yes, I see why most people would think it is worth it. And you are absolutely right that it is much harder to fine tune a headphone through hardware than through software (by EQ'ing the signal).

For the end user the only practical solution is obviously software (EQ), although there are many headphones that have known hardware mods users can do to change some of its defining features (like add bass ports to the cup, remove or add foam, etc. But I would only be personally likely to do this with a headphone of relatively low value (like a K240M or something like that).

A headphone is just part of the equation, and in the end you hope your headphone is a good enough system to reproduce the audio the way it was intended. But then you have to wonder which headphones or speakers a given engineer mixed or mastered an album with, and how that is affecting the way the sound should be reproduced. It is amazing to have these tools at our reach now so freely, though. I am not in principle against EQ'ing a headphone to match my taste for specific material, but what I am not sure I agree with is the idea of matching a headphone to the Harman Curve through EQ. Though it obviously is a concept that has some merit.
 

KeithPhantom

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Yes, I see why most people would think it is worth it. And you are absolutely right that it is much harder to fine tune a headphone through hardware than through software (by EQ'ing the signal).

For the end user the only practical solution is obviously software (EQ), although there are many headphones that have known hardware mods users can do to change some of its defining features (like add bass ports to the cup, remove or add foam, etc. But I would only be personally likely to do this with a headphone of relatively low value (like a K240M or something like that).

A headphone is just part of the equation, and in the end you hope your headphone is a good enough system to reproduce the audio the way it was intended. But then you have to wonder which headphones or speakers a given engineer mixed or mastered an album with, and how that is affecting the way the sound should be reproduced. It is amazing to have these tools at our reach now so freely, though. I am not in principle against EQ'ing a headphone to match my taste for specific material, but what I am not sure I agree with is the idea of matching a headphone to the Harman Curve through EQ. Though it obviously is a concept that has some merit.
EQ also works depending on how you set up your source. For me, my only source is my iPhone that goes to an Apple dongle that feeds a A50s, which amplifies my HD 600. I have a device that does not support systemwide EQ or EQ in the apps I use for music, making my choice of headphones harder since I have to match my preferences to the headphones at hardware level from the get-go. I also have the QC35 II, and you can really notice how the ANC changes the frequency response. It is impressive how advanced is tech ology nowadays and stagnant in others.
 
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Robbo99999

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@Bob-23 , I know you wanted to be kept in the loop, my K702 arrived with Oratory today! Looks like we'll have Oratory EQ & measurements for the K702 in the near near future!
 

Blank Verse

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EQ also works depending on how you set up your source. For me, my only source is my iPhone that goes to an Apple dongle that feeds a A50s, which amplifies my HD 600. I have a device that does not support systemwide EQ or EQ in the apps I use for music, making my choice of headphones harder since I have to match my preferences to the headphones at hardware level from the get-go. I also have the QC35 II, and you can really notice how the ANC changes the frequency response. It is impressive how advanced is tech ology nowadays and stagnant in others.
Yeah, Apple will do that to you. ;)

By the way, is iPhone jailbreaking still a thing these days? I think everybody should find some time to buy an old (probably NOS) Android phone, root it, and run Viper4Android on it. You really don't know what you are missing. Real time EQ, Reverb, Convolution, Speaker Simulation, etc.
 

Blank Verse

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Some people look at the HD600 like a culmination and a sign post, and look at the Sennheiser line from the HD600 onwards, but if you look at the line backwards there are many unexpected and pleasant surprises to be found. I think the Golden Era of Sennheiser headphones is probably from 1984 until 1997 or so. Almost all the headphones in the HD5xx (not referring to the Drop product, but to the group of Sennheisers with a designation of HD5xx where xx stands for 2 digits) from that era seem to have been engineered by artists with technology being the conduit (or the means to an end), and in many ways they are unmatched to this day.
 

KeithPhantom

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If I could fuse them...or at least EQ them....
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Blank Verse

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It looks like with Sennheiser laying off 650 workers Sennheiser HD600 production has been either stopped or slowed down considerably, and the prices have taken a hike at the (in)famous auction site.
 

AyeYoYoYO

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I can’t wait until the lessons sennheiser learned in the HD700, and it’s younger driver sibling the HD660S, are applied in the creation of the HD610S. Featuring the FR of the legendary HD600, but with the lightning fast HD700 driver and lower impedance of the HD660S, and classic grey marble, electric-Aqua-blue-badged housing.
 
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