The IEM Harman Target 2019 sounds "off" to me. Is it just me?

[muza_1]

After receiving the Zero:RED i have been experimenting with various curves and i like the DF with a -0.8dB/oct tilt and a +7dB bass boost.
The Harman curve is too bright and thin for me also lacked a little mid bass, and the Usound has too much energy in the low-bass.
The IEF 2023 +3-4dB bass is somewhat similar to the DF one but a little darker with and a bit less detail.

I always thought that i was going to like the Harman IE 2019 curve (as i like the OE 2018) and the science is sound but after experimenting over the years and lately with more reliable measurements and low-cost IEMs i found out that to my surprise it does not sounds right to me, too thin, bright and on some IEMs harsh and shouty (personal anatomy?).

Also in my experience IEMs don't respond to EQ equally (probably the measurements) unlike with over the ears that are more consistent.
And about measurements i think IEMs are really difficult to measure reliably, yes you can get the same measurements consistently but compared to other similar measuring IEM sound different as an example the Hola should have a much more bass and mid-bass than the Zero:RED but in practice it is not even close the Zero:RED has a lot more (no EQ on both) i had to boost bass +2-3dB and mid-bass +1-2dB to get them close but the Hola measures about +2.5dB above the RED or then again maybe is just personal ear anatomy.

 

[dasdoing]

Crinacle luckily measured IEMs I own with the BK 5128. I've been experimenting a ton in the last few days. My desktop speakers are also measured and corrected via DRC. I might be a weird guy, but my preferred speaker curve is more or less flat with a bass boost less than 1dB. I will say that I use frequency dependend windowing so the corrections are less as frequency increases. That said. If I had to choose an IEM target now, it would be something like this.

View attachment 290623

-1.6dB tilt, 0 bass boost. It still sounds somewhat brighter than my speakers, but I think you have to account for having the drivers directly in front of your ears. Anyway this sounds closer to me (though not identical) to my speaker setup than say the standard targets and I'm really wondering why almost all IEMs are so bright.

This is warm and very beautiful and I'm not really missing any detail. It also has enough bass despite the lack of bass boost. I tried to find IEMs that are tuned like this out of the box, but it's impossible since they all lack energy in the 200-300hz region.

what is the target for your speakers?

 

[BillG]

That little highlighted adjustment always gets it just right for me:

 

[drewdawg999]

I have an old Etymotic ER4P whose stock cable was shredded and shorted out in one channel. Just recently replaced the cable, and use my DIY P to S adapter to convert to ER4S, which is loads better in the detail department. Parametric EQ is also a recent discovery for me, but using AutoEQ settings I find the resulting sound to be incredibly awesome. Bass is strong, best I've ever heard from my Etys, and detail is excellent throughout the frequency spectrum, especially delicate in the treble region. Turning off EQ, it sounds bass shy and shouty in comparison. So I think whatever target AutoEQ uses is just fine and dandy. I've since been thoroughly addicted to the sound of my old Etys on EQ, and shove those things deeply into my ears as much as I can. All the usual suspects for reference recordings have sounded wonderful, and even EDM and hip-hop sounds excellent on them. Fell asleep to Missy Elliott last night and had wonderful tripped out hip-hop dreams, complete with high fidelity tunes. Awesome sauce.

The objects of my affection:

 

[Ambient384]

Just add 4db 105Hz low shelf and add +3db at 7KHz to the ER4XR, It will sound just as good without totally leaving the Ety tuning. The ER4XR with EQ blows away the ER2XR in my view on trying them both, The ER4SR can do the same but the 4XR can be driven louder as It 4db boost instead of doing +8db.

Been using my ER4P with EQ to mimic a ER4S with 6db bass boost(125Hz low shelf) It crazy how much bass this IEM can output despite being Single BA assuming a proper seal is gotten.

 

[markanini]

Been using my ER4P with EQ to mimic a ER4S

There's an official 75Ohm impedance adapter specifically for this purpose. It was even included in a bundle called ER4PT.

 

[Ambient384]

There's an official 75Ohm impedance adapter specifically for this purpose. It was even included in a bundle called ER4PT.

Mine I got never came with one as It was the old red & blue version. I'm holding off as I'm thinking of buying a proper ER4S as new and a new cable for my ER4SR. Never really like the Ohm adapters as It nightmare to have not act up in your pocket.

 

[markanini]

Mine I got never came with one as It was the old red & blue version. I'm holding off as I'm thinking of buying a proper ER4S as new and a new cable for my ER4SR. Never really like the Ohm adapters as It nightmare to have not act up in your pocket.

That's up to you, I'm saying it exists. And fewer know about forms different from an addon adapter. Many sources will have a high Zout, essentially doing the ER4S transformation, without the user knowing. But, in the case of a near-zero Ohm Zout it could be integrated into a custom cable. That's probably easier than looking for an as-new ER4S in 2023, realistically. Those were discontinued 10+ years ago.

 

[Ambient384]

That's up to you, I'm saying it exists. And fewer know about forms different from an addon adapter. Many sources will have a high Zout, essentially doing the ER4S transformation, without the user knowing. But, in the case of a near-zero Ohm Zout it could be integrated into a custom cable. That's probably easier than looking for an as-new ER4S in 2023, realistically. Those were discontinued 10+ years ago.

They still made the ER4S in 2019 with the same box style as the ER4SR/ER4XR. In UK/Europe where the ER4XR/ER4SR are still £360 yet a fresh 2016 ER4S is only £299 mint.

 

[markanini]

@Ambient384 Ok. The replacement product ER4SR was released 2016. I remember ER4S ceasing to be listed in stores well before that, but you may be technically right.

I either way you own ER4P already, that's electronically equivalent to ER4S after applying 75Ohm load, by design. You have to weight the value of re-buying something you already own, basically.

 

[Jimbob54]

Just add 4db 105Hz low shelf and add +3db at 7KHz to the ER4XR, It will sound just as good without totally leaving the Ety tuning. The ER4XR with EQ blows away the ER2XR in my view on trying them both, The ER4SR can do the same but the 4XR can be driven louder as It 4db boost instead of doing +8db.

Been using my ER4P with EQ to mimic a ER4S with 6db bass boost(125Hz low shelf) It crazy how much bass this IEM can output despite being Single BA assuming a proper seal is gotten.

What Q value on the 7khz peak please? Assume 0.7 on the low shelf?

 

[Ambient384]

What Q value on the 7khz peak please? Assume 0.7 on the low shelf?

Q3 for 7KHz

 

[Chyżwar]

The ER4XR with EQ blows away the ER2XR in my view on trying them both,

I have both and they sound 90% the same - the ER2XR have more sub bass and the ER4XR are a bit brighter, after EQ to the same curve they sound 99% the same.

 

[Dazerdoreal]

I push this topic because Sean Olive just confirmed on Twitter (X) that there is a new Harman In-Ear Target on the way.
His statement implies that it might be closer to Crinacles "Red" IEM (I don't own this IEM).

Oratory1990: "Friends of mine are using the @TruthearLab Zero/Zero:Red for on-stage in-ear monitoring. This gave me a chance of measuring them. They broadly follow the Harman Target curve."
Sean Olive: "We are working on a new in-ear HARMAN target curve so it may not "broadly" follow it soon."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1710432330098319804

 

[alumnicesar]

I push this topic because Sean Olive just confirmed on Twitter (X) that there is a new Harman In-Ear Target on the way.
His statement implies that it might be closer to Crinacles "Red" IEM (I don't own this IEM).

Oratory1990: "Friends of mine are using the @TruthearLab Zero/Zero:Red for on-stage in-ear monitoring. This gave me a chance of measuring them. They broadly follow the Harman Target curve."
Sean Olive: "We are working on a new in-ear HARMAN target curve so it may not "broadly" follow it soon."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1710432330098319804

his statement doesnt imply the red is closer. If anything it implies neither are close

 

[dasdoing]

I feel sorry for all the manufactures that targeted the soon obsolete curve lol

 

[fpitas]

I feel sorry for all the manufactures that targeted the soon obsolete curve lol

I feel less sorry for them, since they didn't spend a dime of their own money researching it.

 

[Dazerdoreal]

It will not really be obsolete I think. There will still be people who prefer this target.

 

[CedarX]

We are still talking about preference curves here, are we? Obviously, the new target is going to show a higher preference score per Harman methodology (one of the few (the only one?) actually based on science).
It does not mean the “old” target is becoming totally wrong overnight: as @Dazerdoreal stated, it may still be the preferred target for a very large group of people, but perhaps not the “majority” anymore…
By the same token, I would be surprised if the new target is very different from the current one.

 

[markanini]

I feel sorry for all the manufactures that targeted the soon obsolete curve lol

I don't, blindly adhering to a target without subsequent subjective evaluation sounds like well deserved flop to me.