The greatest speakers ever?

[Pearljam5000]

They are probably talking about small 2-ways which can sound thin and strident no matter how good they are if not helped by a very good room.
Not all studio monitors are small though, mains are the ones who supposedly present th product to the client, and they are usually no small.

I somewhat agree but on the other hand why do most hifi audiophiles like vinyl and tubes? That's obviously colored sound

 

[Mart68]

They are probably talking about small 2-ways which can sound thin and strident no matter how good they are if not helped by a very good room.
Not all studio monitors are small though, mains are the ones who supposedly present th product to the client, and they are usually no small.

I suspect the difference is the small monitor doesn't have a low frequency lift, unlike the domestic equivalent which usually have a boost around 100Hz or thereabouts to add a bit of 'body' to the sound in the absence of any real low bass.

 

[Sokel]

I somewhat agree but on the other hand why do most hifi audiophiles like vinyl and tubes? That's obviously colored sound

There's a difference between the two.
Tubes (bad ones) can be colored and alter FR if high impedance, etc.
Vinyl on the other hand is not colored, just noisy (usually without music, then it's ok if nicely pressed) .

 

[Sokel]

I suspect the difference is the small monitor doesn't have a low frequency lift, unlike the domestic equivalent which usually have a boost around 100Hz or thereabouts to add a bit of 'body' to the sound in the absence of any real low bass.

I wouldn't call it boost, it's not evident at spins, I would call it capacity maybe.

 

[Mart68]

I somewhat agree but on the other hand why do most hifi audiophiles like vinyl and tubes? That's obviously colored sound

Some not most, and tube amps aren't necessarily coloured and, with the right choices, vinyl playback is only marginally coloured.

Plus the psychological thing, of course - the idea that the analogue magic and the tube magic is somehow elevating the experience when it's really adding nothing tangible.

 

[Mart68]

I wouldn't call it boost, it's not evident at spins, I would call it capacity maybe.

Lots of them have a rising response down to 80 or100Hz then it drops off a cliff. Maybe boost is the wrong word but they are not ruler flat through the low frequencies.

 

[Sokel]

Lots of them have a rising response down to 80 or100Hz then it drops off a cliff. Maybe boost is the wrong word but they are not ruler flat through the low frequencies.

Anechoic or estimated in room?
I agree though, there's all shorts.

I for example I love these:

Aerial Acoustics 20T V2 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements The quasi-anechoic measurements were all performed using DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone. The Aerial Acoustics 20T V2 is specified as having a voltage sensitivity of 90dB/2.83V/m; my estimate was somewhat lower, at 88dB(B)/2.83V/m on the...

www.stereophile.com

Take the usual SP bump at 100Hz off and you have a fairly flat ox-axis (and off) speaker.
It does carry all the meat I want at midbass though and can also fairly kick.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

I can recollect one customer evaluating kii Threes who while he thought their sound was clearer with better bass he still preferred the ‘woodyness’ of his old coloured speakers.
Having said that eventually ( some years later) that same customer purchased some 8cs

it's because 8Cs are woody. Anyone can see, it's obvious.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

I somewhat agree but on the other hand why do most hifi audiophiles like vinyl and tubes? That's obviously colored sound

1. They grew up lusting after tubes and collecting records
2. They're old and their ears are borked

 

[Mart68]

Anechoic or estimated in room?
I agree though, there's all shorts.

I for example I love these:

View attachment 479971

Anechoic - if you look on EAC at the bookshelf speakers those with an LF lift are in the majority (except for KEF, and Klipsch put the lift in the highs instead).

 

[Mart68]

Anechoic or estimated in room?
I agree though, there's all shorts.

I for example I love these:

View attachment 479971

Aerial Acoustics 20T V2 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements The quasi-anechoic measurements were all performed using DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone. The Aerial Acoustics 20T V2 is specified as having a voltage sensitivity of 90dB/2.83V/m; my estimate was somewhat lower, at 88dB(B)/2.83V/m on the...

www.stereophile.com

Take the usual SP bump at 100Hz off and you have a fairly flat ox-axis (and off) speaker.
It does carry all the meat I want at midbass though and can also fairly kick.

The Stereophile measurements do show more bass lift than there really is due to the way they do the measurement - I think about 3dB of it isn't 'real'.

 

[Sokel]

The Stereophile measurements do show more bass lift than there really is due to the way they do the measurement - I think about 3dB of it isn't 'real'.

Yes, I expressed this by the "Take the usual SP bump at 100Hz off" at the same post, usually 3-4dB due to the stitching of measurements low and mid-high.

 

[kimmosto]

I don't do assumptions, my personal experience is that most living rooms do not show behaviour not even close to having Schroeder frequency significantly lower than 100 Hz, maybe because I don't have friends living in castles or churches.

How about friends having listening room with acoustically terminated boundaries? For example no vertical modes at all. That is also rare, but exists.
Anyway, sorry that I mentioned schroeder. It has nothing to do with features of Blade, and it's unlikely that agreement will be reached on the volume to be included in the equation. Would be much easier to discuss using the shortest room dimension and delays of the earliest reflections.

 

[kimmosto]

Actually
Most mainstream audiophiles that are used to hifi "colored" sound
Don't really like extreme neutral sound like studio monitors sound
If I'll use the terms they used : it sounds sterile, cold and lifeless to them

Studio monitors are not necessarily extreme neutral. They could have directivity-based balance problems, very bad timing, dynamic problems, subsonic filters (increasig GD), small (not tall enough) radiating area to suit primarily above mixing console. Flagship models could have questionable subwoofer units and unnecessary directivity concepts. Priorities are in durability and low costs. Sound could be artificial and lame, which is finally killed by room EQ with horizontally flat target.

They associate color and distortion with "musicality"

Could you consider that they could be right and quasi-objective "spinorama tells everything" people are not?

 

[Pearljam5000]

Studio monitors are not necessarily extreme neutral. They could have directivity-based balance problems, very bad timing, dynamic problems, subsonic filters (increasig GD), small (not tall enough) radiating area to suit primarily above mixing console. Flagship models could have questionable subwoofer units and unnecessary directivity concepts. Priorities are in durability and low costs. Sound could be artificial and lame, which is finally killed by room EQ with horizontally flat target.

Could you consider that they could be right and quasi-objective "spinorama tells everything" people are not?

I have a feeling you're not a fan of studio monitors

 

[kimmosto]

I have a feeling you're not a fan of studio monitors

My criticism is not limited to studio monitors. They might be better than average, but still disappointments that I don't want to own and listen to (without moving picture). Advertised objective superiority is usually too narrow-minded for objectivist like me. Silence and live music or live music videos are more interesting than just recordings, so the weaknesses of the speakers don't get in the way.

 

[MattHooper]

If you are used to coloured loudspeakers ( as you are) actual transparency might initially sound a little uncomfortable .
Keith

LOL. No.

My Joseph speakers are hardly Klipsch speakers - they measure pretty neutral, with a little lift at the top but sound even more neutral in my well treated listening room.

I’ve owned and used (both personally and professionally) various neutral loudspeakers and never found them “ uncomfortable” in anyway. And the Kii’s where as far from “ uncomfortable” sounding than any monitor, I’ve heard. They were very smooth and rich and easy to listen to. I’ve described all their great qualities before.

I know that as a salesman who once sold those speakers you want to keep defending them, and yes, they are good speakers, but I’m pointing out that having heard a huge number of loudspeakers I did not find anything shockingly new, or particularly amazing, or some new great advance in the loudspeakers, especially that would make me think it is the best stand mounted loudspeaker in the world. A slightly smoother frequency response simply doesn’t do all that.

 

[MattHooper]

Did those Spendors have the main driver surrounds sorted, as they ALL harden up and the bass all but disappears. Spendor don't have replacements for the 1/2 era model I gather, so regular applications of brake fluid to the surround is the usual recommended get-around for these. Later 'R' versions apparently can be sourced if needs be...

They were new speakers. Spendor continues to produce what they call their “classic” line.
I believe they’ve made little updates to the sound as the years have gone on.

 

[Purité Audio]

LOL. No.

My Joseph speakers are hardly Klipsch speakers - they measure pretty neutral, with a little lift at the top but sound even more neutral in my well treated listening room.

I’ve owned and used (both personally and professionally) various neutral loudspeakers and never found them “ uncomfortable” in anyway. And the Kii’s where as far from “ uncomfortable” sounding than any monitor, I’ve heard. They were very smooth and rich and easy to listen to. I’ve described all their great qualities before.

I know that as a salesman who once sold those speakers you want to keep defending them, and yes, they are good speakers, but I’m pointing out that having heard a huge number of loudspeakers I did not find anything shockingly new, or particularly amazing, or some new great advance in the loudspeakers, especially that would make me think it is the best stand mounted loudspeaker in the world. A slightly smoother frequency response simply doesn’t do all that.

Cardioid, full range ( from a compact enclosure), constant directivity and built in PEQ some a few advances!

 

[MattHooper]

1. They grew up lusting after tubes and collecting records
2. They're old and their ears are borked

That wasn’t the case with me or any of the other young audiophiles I new when I got heavily back into high end in the 90s.

It was hearing some set ups, using some tube amps that left me “lusting” (and eventually buying my own), which was the case for the other audiophiles I new (none who were old). I also didn’t collect records until several years ago. And my hearing has measured excellent for my age through the years.