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Thomas savage

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Things are getting over complicated, follow the evidence. But first present it in a way that invites challenge and a spirit of discovery rather than dogged defence of the self. Too much identifying ones own opinions with ones own sense of self worth going on...

Arguments for the sake of arguments with no other merit are not what we are about.

Science is as much about proving yourself wrong and being happy to do so as anything else as doing this brings more understanding. That's the attitude to have here, happy to be wrong if it advances understanding...

They call that scientific thought process.. Or words to that effect.
 

amirm

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Things are getting over complicated, follow the evidence. But first present it in a way that invites challenge and a spirit of discovery rather than dogged defence of the self. Too much identifying ones own opinions with ones own sense of self worth going on...

Arguments for the sake of arguments with no other merit are not what we are about.
I want to give you a Like for this post but I see that your like count starting to go up and encroach on mine so I won't!
 

Opus111

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Does the forum software allow tracking who is the source of the various likes? I'd be curious to see a map of 'who likes whom' as it will be a kind of objective measure of who's in the differing 'camps' here. Just for fun, of course....:p
 

amirm

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Does the forum software allow tracking who is the source of the various likes? I'd be curious to see a map of 'who likes whom' as it will be a kind of objective measure of who's in the differing 'camps' here. Just for fun, of course....:p
I have only seen accounting of the total but not individual ones.
 

Mivera

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I have only seen accounting of the total but not individual ones.

Amir I see you're only 1 post away from joining the ranks of the elitest big dogs :)
 
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Mivera

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Added a bit to that post in edit so even more to like now... :D

Go on I need affirmation from King...

My post to like ratio is getting pretty weak. I better start saying stuff people like :)
 

March Audio

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You answer your question with the second sentence in your post. Genuinely join this forum to have fun and share knowledge and everyone will come along. Post on a science topic that is not partisan and see what happens.

This. I am sorry JK but I have only ever seen you post in a partisan way, whether it be about a product or hypothesis. Its difficult to engage with that as there is little objectivity.
 
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SoundAndMotion

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Science is as much about proving yourself wrong and being happy to do so as anything else as doing this brings more understanding. That's the attitude to have here, happy to be wrong if it advances understanding...
+1 Sorry Amir, I had to like this post...

I learned the power of being wrong in my 20's. When you preach to the choir, get affirmation and maybe even get your ideas repeated in other words back to you, you learn nothing. I normally defend my position when challenged, but every single time I discover I was wrong I learn something. In my world, admitting you're wrong graciously scores points, and every bit of new knowledge makes you stronger.
 

Mivera

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+1 Sorry Amir, I had to like this post...

I learned the power of being wrong in my 20's. When you preach to the choir, get affirmation and maybe even get your ideas repeated in other words back to you, you learn nothing. I normally defend my position when challenged, but every single time I discover I was wrong I learn something. In my world, admitting you're wrong graciously scores points, and every bit of new knowledge makes you stronger.

This is what I always say:

"If ever in an argument or dispute, It's not who's right or who's wrong that matters. It's if the accurate facts are understood by both parties in the end. If this is accomplished, it was worth all the effort regardless of the short term consequences. The truth will always win in the end."
 

John Kenny

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This. I am sorry JK but I have only ever seen you post in a partisan way, whether it be about a product or hypothesis. Its difficult to engage with that as there is little objectivity.
OK, I'm sorry that is your perception - let me try & explain it from my viewpoint. I do analyse issues in this way, looking at the negatives first is my way of analysis - I play devil's advocate with myself as my way of analysing issues - if I can't find any major negatives or if the negatives I find are solvable, then I'm behind the idea whole heartedly. When posting, this negative view is the side I present, in the hope that it will lead to a good discussion & both sides will learn all aspects of an issue. I look on threads as debates - one viewpoint is already presented in posts so I reckon I don't feel I have to restate it in order that I can state my own viewpoint but I guess this can appear as always being negative & not being objective? I feel that if everyone has to restate the other side of the argument before presenting their own side, it becomes very cumbersome.

I think everyone knows that my interest is firmly in the science behind hearing - auditory processing & perception - I find this perspective missing in most discussions - if presenting matters from this perspective is considered not acceptable here or not objective, then I guess I have to a view on this & on this forum

If this sounds contentious or negative I can't help that - it's my view on matters. All of this is my opinion & I may be wrong (see I'm trying to present this objectively) but I really don't even think that this needs to be stated - it's a given for every post made (not just my posts) - they are all IMO
 
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Thomas savage

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Right, now we must all embrace this as its our new forum anthem, anyone seen not to sing this to them selfs every morning will be banned.


Being wrong means there is reason to get out of bed in the morning and learn, other than Tim who has not been wrong since 1976 we all should enthusiastically embrace being wrong.
 

John Kenny

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I thought I was wrong once, about 10 years ago, but I was wrong, I wasn't, I was right but of course this means I was wrong in thinking I was wrong - help, my circuits are overheating trying to stay objective about this !!:p:D
 

Phelonious Ponk

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I am saying it that it seems that you are putting forward only that science that you hope invalidate objectivity (e.g. validity of double blind test level matching). That doesn't bother me and as you have noticed, I did engage and read the paper you put forward. But it will bother others so they don't see it in good faith.

And to be clear, understanding the thresholds of our hearing in various manners is core to understanding the audio topic and I hope to cover a lot of it in the future.

Spot on.
 

Phelonious Ponk

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Being wrong means there is reason to get out of bed in the morning and learn, other than Tim who has not been wrong since 1976 we all should enthusiastically embrace being wrong.

I may have overstated that, given that both of my marriages occurred after that year...
 

John Kenny

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Amir said:
I am saying it that it seems that you are putting forward only that science that you hope invalidate objectivity (e.g. validity of double blind test level matching). That doesn't bother me and as you have noticed, I did engage and read the paper you put forward. But it will bother others so they don't see it in good faith.

And to be clear, understanding the thresholds of our hearing in various manners is core to understanding the audio topic and I hope to cover a lot of it in the future.

I have to comment on Amir's original post & your agreement with it - it really doesn't make sense, to me, How can looking at all sides of a subject "invalidate objectivity"?

You might not like what I say or the perspective I bring but, unless there is something wrong with the science or my understanding of it then I don't see how it is anti-objectivity - actually, it's seems to me to be exactly the opposite of this.

Now, as I said if people don't want to consider the science of auditory perception & believe that it is not a welcome perspective on this forum then please say this directly & not couch it in terms of being anti-objective

All this is IMO, etc.
 

March Audio

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OK, I'm sorry that is your perception - let me try & explain it from my viewpoint. I do analyse issues in this way, looking at the negatives first is my way of analysis - I play devil's advocate with myself as my way of analysing issues - if I can't find any major negatives or if the negatives I find are solvable, then I'm behind the idea whole heartedly. When posting, this negative view is the side I present, in the hope that it will lead to a good discussion & both sides will learn all aspects of an issue. I look on threads as debates - one viewpoint is already presented in posts so I reckon I don't feel I have to restate it in order that I can state my own viewpoint but I guess this can appear as always being negative & not being objective? I feel that if everyone has to restate the other side of the argument before presenting their own side, it becomes very cumbersome.

I think everyone knows that my interest is firmly in the science behind hearing - auditory processing & perception - I find this perspective missing in most discussions - if presenting matters from this perspective is considered not acceptable here or not objective, then I guess I have to a view on this & on this forum

If this sounds contentious or negative I can't help that - it's my view on matters. All of this is my opinion & I may be wrong (see I'm trying to present this objectively) but I really don't even think that this needs to be stated - it's a given for every post made (not just my posts) - they are all IMO

If it's missing from discussion it's because it's so nebulous. It's difficult to see where you are going with it, other to justify the the things you say you hear.
 
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