The FTC may consider dropping the Amplifier Rule.

[restorer-john]

Do we have anyone already following the rule?Had a look around and didn't find any following exactly.

It doesn't take effect until 8/12/24

The amplifier rule has been law since 1974 and is still in effect. This is an ammendment and a clarification.

Many amplifier manufacturers have been ignoring it it for decades, except the good ones. McIntosh, Accuphase are examples who have always specified in accordance with the requirements, but even McIntosh has got a bit lazy in the last few years with compliant specs.

This is pretty good, but it will need to be cleaned up and the correct terms/wording used:

 

[davidc]

The amplifier rule has been law since 1974 and is still in effect. This is an ammendment and a clarification.

Many amplifier manufacturers have been ignoring it it for decades, except the good ones. McIntosh, Accuphase are examples who have always specified in accordance with the requirements, but even McIntosh has got a bit lazy in the last few years with compliant specs.

Ok, yeah. And properly called the "R"ule. But Rule was "relaxed" in 2000 and 2010

 

[NTK]

Read carefully. "Associated channels" means at a minimum only the main L and R.

I am not going to argue with you. Not worth my time.

 

[davidc]

I am not going to argue with you. Not worth my time.

Hmm...maybe I don't understand what you are saying. I thought you were trying to make a point that the new rule says that every channel has to be driven and rated? Not just the front left and right like I had said. Or was it something else?

 

[somebodyelse]

(The USA-only obligation brings debates on other forums,and it sure looks unfair if USA companies that use the exact same modules have to state vastly lower numbers)

Everyone selling in the US has to follow it when advertising in the US. And IIRC it still allows them to include other power specs so long as they're after and less prominent than the FTC one. US manufacturers can use whatever rule is applicable locally when selling in other countries, so the playing field is still level. Assuming they start to enforce the Rule again, which is another matter entirely.

 

[Sokel]

Everyone selling in the US has to follow it when advertising in the US. And IIRC it still allows them to include other power specs so long as they're after and less prominent than the FTC one. US manufacturers can use whatever rule is applicable locally when selling in other countries, so the playing field is still level. Assuming they start to enforce the Rule again, which is another matter entirely.

Advertising is probably the key word.
Say that I am a company in Europe and I only state the specs at my site.
Is that advertising?Obviously not.

 

[davidc]

Advertising is probably the key word.
Say that I am a company in Europe and I only state the specs at my site.
Is that advertising?Obviously not.

It's interesting to note that even in the US, the Rule was changed in 2000 to actually allow a difference between statements in advertising vs statements on the manuf website or other "official" areas. That was a bad decision.

 

[Sokel]

It's interesting to note that even in the US, the Rule was changed in 2000 to actually allow a difference between statements in advertising vs statements on the manuf website or other "official" areas. That was a bad decision.

I suspect that the same informed ones of the past will remain informed,as for the rest...

 

[restorer-john]

Assuming they start to enforce the Rule again, which is another matter entirely.

I think there will be a period of adjustment, then perhaps and "education" stage and ultimately an enforcement stage.

I also expect the reliance on reports from the public/competitors and commentators may form much of the early responses.

 

[restorer-john]

It's interesting to note that even in the US, the Rule was changed in 2000 to actually allow a difference between statements in advertising vs statements on the manuf website or other "official" areas. That was a bad decision.

That has also been clarified. For the better.

 

[davidc]

That has also been clarified. For the better.

Well, under the new Rule, they can't do it anymore.

 

[peng]

Edited to say "continuous".

About time! They should also more clearly spell out what "continuous" mean, definitely not literally continuous, we know that much. Count on many people would get misled unless they read the fine print carefully (that would likely settle on 10, 15, or 30 minutes), that obviously they should, but..

 

[restorer-john]

About time! They should also more clearly spell out what "continuous" mean, definitely not literally continuous, we know that much. Count on many people would get misled unless they read the fine print carefully (that would likely settle on 10, 15, or 30 minutes), that obviously they should, but..

They have clearly spelt it out. 5 minutes minimum.

 

[MAB]

About time! They should also more clearly spell out what "continuous" mean, definitely not literally continuous, we know that much. Count on many people would get misled unless they read the fine print carefully (that would likely settle on 10, 15, or 30 minutes), that obviously they should, but..

Rated power shall be obtainable at all frequencies within the rated power band without exceeding the rated maximum percentage of total harmonic distortion after input signals at said frequencies have been continuously applied at full rated power for not less than five (5) minutes at the amplifier's auxiliary input, or if not provided, at the phono input.

Also, has to be in still air. i.e. no fans blowing on it to cool the amp.

 

[peng]

They have clearly spelt it out. 5 minutes minimum.

Thanks, like I said, people need to read the fine print. Is the 5 minutes final, or still under consideration? If final, I will be fine with that, 5 min is long enough for real world applications.

 

[davidc]

Thanks, like I said, people need to read the fine print. Is the 5 minutes final, or still under consideration? If final, I will be fine with that, 5 min is long enough for real world applications.

Final. Law takes effect on 8/12/24

 

[MAB]

Thanks, like I said, people need to read the fine print. Is the 5 minutes final, or still under consideration? If final, I will be fine with that, 5 min is long enough for real world applications.

It’s in the body text, third section, under test conditions. Really clear. Not fine print.

 

[peng]

It’s in the body text, third section, under test conditions. Really clear. Not fine print.

My follow up question was whether that was final, I asked because in D Murphy's post, it was still just "propsed", so things could have changed. davidc just answered my question. Thanks anyway.

 

[somebodyelse]

Also, has to be in still air. i.e. no fans blowing on it to cool the amp.

Apart from internal fans. In the past these have been included to pass FTC power tests while rarely if ever operating in the real world.

If final, I will be fine with that, 5 min is long enough for real world applications.

For most 'real world' applications it should be more than enough. There are probably a few where it isn't. The trade-off between the corner cases and the 'overspecification' isn't a new argument.

 

[pma]

Dodgy manufacturers: read it and weep!

• 5 minutes minimum for continuous rated power. (at least 5 minutes at full rated power. No millisecond ratings or 30 second cop-outs)
• 1hr preconditioning for all channels at 1/8 rated power. (Fine and should still result in better AVR heatsink design going forward)
• Bandwidth power requirement and THD required. (Full frequency range with no more than x% THD.)
• Rating encompasses 250mW to rated power. (expect to see THD only testing (not THD+N) in order to comply)

John, I am thinking deep about the amplifier test methodology. I think it would not happen here to follow the FCC rules, so I guess there is the only chance, for me. I will start amplifier measurement reviews according the recommendations and will post them on my web page. Time after time I may post a link here, if @amirm has no problem with it.