The FTC may consider dropping the Amplifier Rule.

[Dennis Murphy]

Status update??? Inquiring minds want to know, instead of getting more meaningful work done

The Federal Register Notice concerning the proposed amendments to the FTC Rule has finally been published:
Federal Register :: Request Access

The main issue with the stereo testing requirements will be the <.1% limit on THD. As excepted, the FTC is still punting on specific proposals for testing multichannel amps. The Notice reports some of the suggestions made in the last comment period, and then states that the authors presented no evidence that the proposed testing requirements represent common consumer usage (e.g., specifying that the surround channels should be run simultaneously at some reduced percentage of rated power for the mains, or that all channels should be run at full rated power simultaneously.) So the ball hasn't been advanced on the most critical issue. Public comments are due by September 26.

 

[Head_Unit]

The main issue with the stereo testing requirements will be the .01 limit on THD

Thanks for the update, I'm going to comment further. I still believe* that some movie scenes drive all channel to maximum at once. And even if we suppose that is not so, I further believe such a testing requirement would require better and stiffer power supplies which would be better for sound.
- But this is all useless if there is no enforcement
- And useless unless the Rule specifies NO OTHER SPECS can be shown in advertisement (well maybe only in significantly smaller type).
P.S. edit the .01 to 0.1 (which is still troublesome for some amplifiers)


*(though admittedly still hoping someone with the right equipment/software will do some actual analysis)
EDIT: ah somebody did, seems the rears really don't have the same level, roughly -10 dB even for peaks. I forget where the thread is. It made me wonder, since every movie theater pretty much has a long line of speakers down the side, if that ends up boosting the acoustic level up to the LCR.

 

[pseudoid]

Amir gave me permission to create this link. This for all amplifiers be it seperates, AVRs, and integrated.

Of course @amirm will give you permission. It will work out to ASR's favor; since there won't be anyone else to trust anymore.
At times, when there is nothing else to do at FTC and FCC, they should agree to...

 

[Head_Unit]

550 comments. I read the first 25, all FOR keeping and even beefing up the Amplifier Rule. But what is HAPPENING? Who is responsible at the FTC? In Congress?

 

[Jedi2155]

Great that probably means a 16 channel poweramp will be rated with one channel driven at 10%thd 1khz 6 ohm.

I know your joking but my Samsung Soundbar from 2013 literally lists a 10% THD at 1 kHz ...... of course its advertised at 280W while the specs say 25W operating.....

 

[Chrispy]

I know your joking but my Samsung Soundbar from 2013 literally lists a 10% THD at 1 kHz ...... of course its advertised at 280W while the specs say 25W operating.....

It's not unusual for some marketing to even add up all 16 channels to one rating

 

[Dennis Murphy]

It's not unusual for some marketing to even add up all 16 channels to one rating

It's been over a year since the FTC solicited comments. My best guess is that a new rulemaking has been shelved.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Places all the more importance on ASR and others to do testing. My bet would be that industry lobbyists stalled the effort. 

 

[Chrispy]

Places all the more importance on ASR and others to do testing. My bet would be that industry lobbyists stalled the effort. 

Let alone how much of a budget they get to begin with.....

 

[Dennis Murphy]

he more importance on ASR and others to do testing. My bet would be that industry lobbyists stalled the effort. 

The amplifier industry is a fragmented, warring group. The only lobbyists would be from the Consumer Electronics Association, and the only lobbying they have done was in support of their proposed measurement protocol. They very much want the Commission to adopt it and enforce a new Rule. The problem is one of priorities. Speaking from 40 years experience at the FTC, there's no real interest in the Rule or in embarking on a technical technical rulemaking with no in-house expertise to keep everything on track. The Commission staff is composed of lawyers and economists, not electrical engineers.

 

[Rick Sykora]

The amplifier industry is a fragmented, warring group. The only lobbyists would be from the Consumer Electronics Association, and the only lobbying they have done was in support of their proposed measurement protocol. They very much want the Commission to adopt it and enforce a new Rule. The problem is one of priorities. Speaking from 40 years experience at the FTC, there's no real interest in the Rule or in embarking on a technical technical rulemaking with no in-house expertise to keep everything on track. The Commission staff is composed of lawyers and economists, not electrical engineers.

Sounds like any standards committee work in industry. They all say they want standardization but has to be their standard. Then there is the enforcement side. Not as much point to a standard if some spend to adopt and others do not. What a mess.

@amirm guess its all on you!

 

[Head_Unit]

Then there is the enforcement side.

I will volunteer for that! I have a nice fat sledgehammer in my garage...a blowtorch too...

 

[jooc]

The FTC has recently announced reviewing its current rule, formally known as: “FTC Trade Regulation Rule Relating to Power Output Claims for Amplifiers Utilized in Home Entertainment Products”, or simply as the “Amplifier Rule”. The FTC reviews its rules every ten years, and it’s that time again for the Amplifier Rule. This is when the consumer protection agency opens the rule up to comment from concerned citizens. Without their governing body and resultant guidelines/rules, the American consumer will have even less protection from unscrupulous manufacturer practises such as misleading advertisement and false output power claims. As a result, American consumers may have little legal recourse against such manufacturers.

Please go to the link provided below and address your concerns.

https://www.regulations.gov/comment?D=FTC-2020-0087-0001

Amir gave me permission to create this link. This for all amplifiers be it seperates, AVRs, and integrated.

If the Amplifier Rule goes away, there will be only one place the entire world can come to get the real measurements, and that place is here. Amir will be Bezos

 

[DonH56]

If the Amplifier Rule goes away, there will be only one place the entire world can come to get the real measurements, and that place is here. Amir will be Bezos

I really hope not, but from my limited interaction with Amir @amirm , I do not think that will happen.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I really hope not, but from my limited interaction with Amir @amirm , I do not think that will happen.

Oh we wish Amir all the fortune in the world. Bezos can keep the rest

 

[DVDdoug]

I thought the regulation had maybe died. It doesn't seem to be enforced at all.

Who is responsible at the FTC? In Congress?

Joe Biden. (The executive branch and its agencies.) Congress mostly passes "big picture laws" (that go into effect after the president signs them, or if his veto is overridden) that allow the executive branch agencies to draft the actual detailed regulations. Most federal "laws" were never voted-on by congress. Congress can override the regulations but they rarely do. And of course, the Supreme Court can declare laws & regulations unconstitutional, which they also rarely do.

It's up to the executive branch to enforce the laws & regulations.

 

[rdenney]

Sounds like any standards committee work in industry. They all say they want standardization but has to be their standard. Then there is the enforcement side. Not as much point to a standard if some spend to adopt and others do not. What a mess.

@amirm guess its all on you!

The great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.

Rick "with experience to back up the old truism" Denney