The famous AB test between amplifiers

[END WAY]

Define "better built" and what the relationship to sound quality is?
Electrons don't know the price or perceived "simplicity" of whatever they are traversing.
Audio amps are mature technology, it is neither hard nor expensive to create an amp with imperfections that fall below audibility in typical non-overload conditions, at least at modest power levels.

There are some studies and tests that already refute the theory you mention about electrons, that energy flows through wires. It would be good for you to review it and decide whether you believe the old or the new theory.

 

[NTK]

There are some studies and tests that already refute the theory you mention about electrons, that energy flows through wires. It would be good for you to review it and decide whether you believe the old or the new theory.

Then can you please explain why we need heavier gauge wires for higher currents? And how fuses work? And what about conductivity?

 

[mhardy6647]

Everyone loves the UFO thread. We're starting a Bigfoot one next month.

I hope Dale posts to it!

 

[END WAY]

You were talking about amplifiers, as was I. Now you want me to say two speakers with the same FR will sound the same?

Can we not focus on one thing at a time?

Yes, any two competent amps used within their capabilities will have the same timbre as they will output a flat FR within the audible range.

Timbre is a function of frequency response. It doesn't come from the designer using a secret blend of 11 herbs and capacitors as some would have you believe. (I have met some amp designers who do believe that. But they don't blind test themselves).

I know we're talking about amplifiers in an A/B test with a DAC, some cables, and some speakers sounding as a whole, but I was really struck by what you said about Timbre being a function of frequency response. Does this only apply to amplifiers and doesn't this theory apply to speakers? Is that so?

 

[END WAY]

Then can you please explain why we need heavier gauge wires for higher currents? And how fuses work? And what about conductivity?

 

[NTK]

Sorry. That has nothing to do with what I am asking.

 

[Mart68]

I know we're talking about amplifiers in an A/B test with a DAC, some cables, and some speakers sounding as a whole, but I was really struck by what you said about Timbre being a function of frequency response. Does this only apply to amplifiers and doesn't this theory apply to speakers? Is that so?

Yes, the timbre of the speaker will be dictated by its FR but it is not as simple as with amplifiers.

You can look at a suite of amp measurements and confidently say they will sound the same, but that's not true of speakers.

 

[oleg87]

There are some studies and tests that already refute the theory you mention about electrons, that energy flows through wires. It would be good for you to review it and decide whether you believe the old or the new theory.

Lol, I'm certainly not the sharpest EE you'll find around these parts, but I have been doing this for a living for a decade and change so I reckon I know a thing or two about how wires work.

 

[END WAY]

Sorry. That has nothing to do with what I am asking.

I'm sorry, I can't answer your question.

 

[END WAY]

Lol, I'm certainly not the sharpest EE you'll find around these parts, but I have been doing this for a living for a decade and change so I reckon I know a thing or two about how wires work.

Just because you have years of experience doesn't mean you know everything about electrons. I'm just letting you know that there are other theories, that's all.

 

[Blumlein 88]

snip...
But if you tell me that amplifier A is a well-built, inexpensive model with a fair power supply that tries to prove that it is as good as an amplifier like an MC611 and that it sounds the same and you want to convince me by doing a controlled A/B test at a certain volume with songs that do not require current in an open room etc..., what's more, I give you the option of using a DSP in the inexpensive amp, I will definitely tell you yes, I could hear differences if you do the test in my room with my acoustics and with my speakers.

snip...
No you couldn't. Not if the amps compared are up to it. If the signals going to speakers are close enough within well known parameters between two amps, the sound coming out of the speakers is close enough there is no physical difference in the sound produced for you to hear. It really is as simple as that.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Just because you have years of experience doesn't mean you know everything about electrons. I'm just letting you know that there are other theories, that's all.

It isn't another theory. What you show isn't new information to him.

 

[END WAY]

snip...
No you couldn't. Not if the amps compared are up to it. If the signals going to speakers are close enough within well known parameters between two amps, the sound coming out of the speakers is close enough there is no physical difference in the sound produced for you to hear. It really is as simple as that.

How close is enough for you? 1 decibel, half a decibel, a quarter of a decibel at a specific frequency?

 

[END WAY]

It isn't another theory. What you show isn't new information to him.

If he has the information right, he discards the theory that indicates Veritasium and there is no problem.

 

[antcollinet]

You say that if the amplifier has power levels, noise distortion, impedance handling and a response curve equal to that of another amplifier,

No, I don't

I say that if both amplifiers have measurements that show imperfections ARE BELOW THE LEVEL OF AUDIBILITY then they will sound the same.

If you have two badly performing amps with (say) audible distortion - then they can sound different even if the total level of distortion is the same, because the characteristics of that distortion can be different. (EG third harmonic vs second harmonic - or harmonic distortion vs intermodulation distortion)

But if the distortion is inaudible, then it is inaudible. Inaudible distortion on one amp sounds the same as inaudible distortion on the second amp. It sounds like nothing.

 

[antcollinet]

How close is enough for you? 1 decibel, half a decibel, a quarter of a decibel at a specific frequency?

You asked that question earlier, except you included all the other measured characteristics. I answered you then.

 

[DonH56]

It's amazing the amount of effort expended to try to explain things to people who's sole focus is to tell their side and regale in their rightness while ignoring the other side no matter the evidence.

 

[Blumlein 88]

How close is enough for you? 1 decibel, half a decibel, a quarter of a decibel at a specific frequency?

.1 decibel is how close they need to be. Best determined by sending a tone thru and measuring with a voltmeter at the speaker terminals. The two voltages need to be within 1.2% of each other. Somewhere around a quarter db and above it will sound different. Will sound like a quality difference and not a loudness difference even though the effect is from loudness only.

 

[xray]

We are well into trolling territory now.

 

[END WAY]

It's amazing the amount of effort expended to try to explain things to people who's sole focus is to tell their side and regale in their rightness while ignoring the other side no matter the evidence.

I could tell you the same thing, in all your posts, absolutely in all of them, you give an erroneous opinion and my argument is that nobody in this world has the absolute truth, even if you think you are right, including the measurements.
The thing is that when someone comments on something that they don't like because it is shown from another perspective, everyone wants to intervene and boost their ego by wanting to belittle the opinion of others.