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The Etymotic Target (R.I.P. Harman)

amirm

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which is something I pointed out in my comparison of Harman's In-Room response, Etymotic, and Diffuse Field. Has any comparison been done between Harman and Etymotic?
Etymotic ER4P was used in Harman testing and as I mentioned, it did not do very well due to lack of bass.
 

JohnYang1997

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Doesn't do what? This study clearly shows why measurements in room will not be flat even though the speaker measures this way anechoically. This has been the core topic of discussion here. So what do you mean it doesn't do it? What were you looking for?
No one said it will be flat across frequency. There's downward slop built in etymotic target.

Which is the more preferred? The preferred in room response? Or the flat anechoic response. Those two will not be the same in the room. This is a separated question not related to headphones.
 
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Sharur

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Etymotic ER4P was used in Harman testing and as I mentioned, it did not do very well due to lack of bass.
So is there an assumption that ER4S is even less preferred due to having more high frequencies?
 

JohnYang1997

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Etymotic ER4P was used in Harman testing and as I mentioned, it did not do very well due to lack of bass.
You are dodging the question. The question was about the target not a model comparing to a different target.
There's more variable in earphones especially the deep inserting ones. You don't get proper response without inserting properly. But I don't think it's the listening test done by Harman.
 

amirm

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So is there an assumption that ER4S is even less preferred due to having more high frequencies?
No. From talking to Sean Olive, the problem with it was too little bass. Response was fine elsewhere.
 

JohnYang1997

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It isn't to me. When I see people make this complaint and I probe them, they really have no idea how their headphone is measuring or the EQ they are using. The mix measurements with fixtures other than what research used with EQ developed by who knows what. Follow the strict protocol of the research and then show me precisely what response you land on. If it is flat in bass, then you are an outlier and is not what we should chase.
I'm not talking about "other" people. Me with my friends I mentioned know how to measure (have used RA0045 and 4128c)and I was paying for AES member in the ear 2018 reading all the headphones/earphones related papers with them. We also could do eq by ear to +-1dB in the mid range and a bit loose in the lows and highs. We were definitely trained.
 

amirm

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I am bailing out guys. I have other things to do. If you think Harman curve is dead, you best setup shop to do your own measurements, controlled listening tests, and reviews of headphones. Nothing remotely stated in that video gets me to consider using something else.
 
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Sharur

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No. From talking to Sean Olive, the problem with it was too little bass. Response was fine elsewhere.
Also, perception of bass relates to amount of high frequencies you have. If your headphone is deficient in highs, then the bass can stand out more.
ER4P is deficient in the highs relative to Etymotic target and ER4S has more highs bringing it closer to Etymotic target. According to your logic, ER4S would appear to have even less bass and be less preferred, no?
 
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JohnYang1997

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I am bailing out guys. I have other things to do. If you think Harman curve is dead, you best setup shop to do your own measurements, controlled listening tests, and reviews of headphones. Nothing remotely stated in that video gets me to consider using something else.
That's exactly why it's a never winning game. No one else has the power to listening test with large group of people. I also have more important stuff to do. The issue is misconception is clearly more than you imagine.
 
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Sharur

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If target curves aren't being used, how is the comfort of ER4P deep insertion accounted for?
 

ZolaIII

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I am bailing out guys. I have other things to do. If you think Harman curve is dead, you best setup shop to do your own measurements, controlled listening tests, and reviews of headphones. Nothing remotely stated in that video gets me to consider using something else.
It's not dead and it dose represent a good starting point to do measurements as if they (hedaphones) can handle it's bass elevation with small to no distortion then they will certainly fit & those who don't like so much of it there and even those who would like even little more of it. Insisting how Harman curve is something final and scientific is childish to say at least. I stay at my hypothesis how amount of bass you like is related to your individual hearing abilities or state of hearing health (how ever you prefer to call it).
 

Eneko

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What if we frame it in this way: if you want to hear something similar to what the mixing people listened (my assumptions are, flat speakers at short(ish) distance, at what I consider high volume (for my taste)), put the bass flatter and go up with volume. If you don’t know what do you like, buy something similar to the HT, it is more probable that would you like it. If you know what do you like, then, whichever reference will do, you just need the measurements and do the adjustment you like… no?
 
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Sharur

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Factors besides the target curves seem present in the tests. The same headphone should be tested with Harman Target vs Etymotic Target.
 

ObjectAudio

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I think that one issue with Harman target that over the ear headphones equalized to Harman OE target to my ears sound total different from IEM equalized to Harman IE target.
 
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Sharur

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I'm just going to post what @Sean Olive answered to me a few days ago:
View attachment 151807
View attachment 151808
I want to confirm what the green line represents since it seems to be the main issue. Is the green line supposed to be the headphone version of the orange line or flat from 20 Hz to 20 kHz? If it's the latter, no wonder it's not preferred because it's not room compensated. However, compensating for in-room doesn't require a bass shelf.
 
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Sharur

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No. You are contradicting yourself the whole thread. He pointed out the Harman targets are preferred targets. And the gree line is speakers eqed to flat in the room not room response with speakers eqed to flat anechoic response. He gets the whole thing and you didn't understand the point he's talking about.
nvm it was already answered
 
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