The elephant in the room? Objective to what...

[Lambda]

I don’t know if it has been addressed but stereo is plant if used right
listen to some good "binaural dummy head recordings"
just search for "ASMR" on YouTube
(just kidding don't do it)


But this only works properly if the dummy head’s transfer function is close to your head transfer function.
and if you don’t move your head. (and listen with headphones)

Visual equivalent is this:

if you want to be able to rotate your had and all the sounds your recording are in the "far field" an ambisonic recording is sufficient

Visual equivalent is this:

It is not relay "3D" but you can move your head.
the illusion brakes if things get to closes to the camera.



If you want to be Abel to move your head also laterally and have real 3d depth you need head tracking and a Wavefield recording or light field.
here it gets kind of complicated:


For the 360° you need a spherical sensor array the size of the area of you want to move in.

Google created this rotating 16-GoPro arc to capture light field data for VR

Google has built a fascinating rotating light field VR camera rig using 16 GoPros mounted in an arc. The rig is meant to give viewers "a more realistic sense of presence” within a VR world.

www.dpreview.com

Google's 46-camera 'light field videos' let you change perspective and peek around corners | TechCrunch

Google is showing off one of the most impressive efforts yet turning traditional photography and video into something more immersive: 3D video that lets

techcrunch.com

or if your a ok with having a small FOV you can have a planar sensor array

Your microphone then looks like this

But in the end after a lot of processing the delivery format for audio as well as Video is plain old "stereo"

 

[mhardy6647]

Realistic and accurate music reproduction, even in stereo, can be had for somewhere around $80,000.

Ruh-roh.
I didn't realize it was a physical constant.
Does it change with inflation?
Even if so -- I'd have thought there was a discontinuity in the trend line when decent quality Class D amplifier blocks flooded the market.

Kia?

These are in... rather high... demand in the US at least. Maybe ca. $80k, too, come to think of it. Coincidence?

 

[Geert]

I wonder how accurate most $80k systems are...

Fortunately, you can get there for a lot less. The myth that quality sound requires big $$$ is just that...a myth.

With $80k you won't get much further than a streamer and cables

(Have a look at his other video's, including a recent one about his 30k streamer).

 

[billyjoebob]

Ruh-roh.
I didn't realize it was a physical constant.
Does it change with inflation?
Even if so -- I'd have thought there was a discontinuity in the trend line when decent quality Class D amplifier blocks flooded the market.

These are in... rather high... demand in the US at least. Maybe ca. $80k, too, come to think of it. Coincidence?

Beautiful car!
Still not a Ferrari!

 

[Larry B. Larabee]

I wonder how accurate most $80k systems are...

Fortunately, you can get there for a lot less. The myth that quality sound requires big $$$ is just that...a myth.

For those that literally bought into that idea, giving it up can be tough. Hard to tell the wife that about $65k of that $80k I spent was to make charlatans rich.

People spend $50k on an F150 pickup and think nothing of it. I'm talking about serious audiophiles who are unlikely to be swindled. Here's the breakdown:
amplifiers: 24k
preamp:6k
dac:4k
speakers:24k
interconnects/cables:1k
anything else you want:6k
hmm, cheaper than I thought: 65k + tax U.S ( or $140k in Australia but, that's not my problem.)
That gives you what everybody wants Real Live Music All Of The Time.

Or we could do it your way:
benchmark amp (if you can stomach it)
topping dac
revel 106
pick your 2 subwoofers
That gives you what most everbody wants Sort of Live Music Some Of The Time.
In the first case you have nothing to complain about in the second case compromises are made ripe to be picked apart because that's the nature of audiophiles.

Half the people who buy system 2 will end up spending at least twice as much as it cost over the years in upgrading and losses in resale value.

System 1 will last at least 30yrs. and you can sell everything for what you paid.

my 2c

 

[tmtomh]

Kia?

@Newman 's point is that if you name any aspect of Ferrari performance, we can create an analogy with audio in which you can in fact get that level of performance in the audio equivalent of a Kia. Harmonic distortion, intermodulation distortion, crosstalk, jitter, linearity, frequency response, power/wattage, and so on - it's possible to assemble a system for a lot less than $80k that can go toe to toe with an $80k system, and conversely it is incredibly easy to spend $80k and end up with a system that vastly underperforms for the price.

Now of course if what you want is very expensive and unusual finishes and other physical/aesthetic design features, then yes - exotic wood veneers on speakers, or the McIntosh blue meters-glass front look or whatever is generally going to command a premium price. But you wrote about Ferrari performance, not Ferrari looks.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Obviously a really good recording is to a live performance as an Ansel Adams picture of the Grand Canyon is to the Grand Canyon itself. Doesn't mean I don't want the Adams though.

 

[tmtomh]

People spend $50k on an F150 pickup and think nothing of it. I'm talking about serious audiophiles who are unlikely to be swindled. Here's the breakdown:
amplifiers: 24k
preamp:6k
dac:4k
speakers:24k
interconnects/cables:1k
anything else you want:6k
hmm, cheaper than I thought: 65k + tax U.S ( or $140k in Australia but, that's not my problem.)
That gives you what everybody wants Real Live Music All Of The Time.

Or we could do it your way:
benchmark amp (if you can stomach it)
topping dac
revel 106
pick your 2 subwoofers
That gives you what most everbody wants Sort of Live Music Some Of The Time.
In the first case you have nothing to complain about in the second case compromises are made ripe to be picked apart because that's the nature of audiophiles.

Half the people who buy system 2 will end up spending at least twice as much as it cost over the years in upgrading and losses in resale value.

System 1 will last at least 30yrs. and you can sell everything for what you paid.

my 2c

I think 2c might be an overvaluation here.

 

[Newman]

Obviously a really good recording is to a live performance as an Ansel Adams picture of the Grand Canyon is to the Grand Canyon itself. Doesn't mean I don't want the Adams though.

IMO Adams’ work is more analogous to the studio engineer’s production AND the composer/musician’s creation, combined.

 

[JRS]

I wonder how accurate most $80k systems are...

Fortunately, you can get there for a lot less. The myth that quality sound requires big $$$ is just that...a myth.

For those that literally bought into that idea, giving it up can be tough. Hard to tell the wife that about $65k of that $80k I spent was to make charlatans rich.

Agreed. I believe that 2 grand will get you some dandy sound and likely represents a max bang for the buck inflection point. IME, the very best sound carries a price tag of 15K to say 40K with 75 percent going to the loudspeakers. Beyond that the trend is asymptotic, and most often money wasted on status symbol or woo woo buys. Where that is not the case are when the room is extremely large and absolutely clean peak volumes of 120dB are sought. That said, there are any number of extraordinary speakers these days that cost 50k, because they can, and not so much that the engineering and parts determine the price, although enclosures milled from solid aluminum or exotic composites requiring large autoclaves and such may not be effectively amortized by the small numbers of product.

 

[RickSanchez]

People spend $50k on an F150 pickup and think nothing of it. I'm talking about serious audiophiles who are unlikely to be swindled. Here's the breakdown:
amplifiers: 24k
preamp:6k
dac:4k
speakers:24k
interconnects/cables:1k
anything else you want:6k
hmm, cheaper than I thought: 65k + tax U.S ( or $140k in Australia but, that's not my problem.)
That gives you what everybody wants Real Live Music All Of The Time.

...

Why the hell have I wasted the last 2+ years on Audio Science Review? I should have joined Audio Finance Review! Where one can evaluate the quality of engineering + transparent sound reproduction in audio equipment simply by measuring price.

I think I already found a $4k DAC that is state of the art and provides "Real Live Music All of the Time" ... as long as I ignore the noise and distortion it generates.

 

[ahofer]

Realistic and accurate music reproduction, even in stereo, can be had for somewhere around $80,000.

I don’t think so, no. And if there’s more than a few thousand in electronics there, it was wasted or you are probably departing from neutrality.

 

[DimitryZ]

Obviously a really good recording is to a live performance as an Ansel Adams picture of the Grand Canyon is to the Grand Canyon itself. Doesn't mean I don't want the Adams though.

I own several of Ansel Adams' iconic photographs - well printed versions from his original negatives. They are relatively affordable.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Why the hell have I wasted the last 2+ years on Audio Science Review? I should have joined Audio Finance Review! Where one can evaluate the quality of engineering + transparent sound reproduction in audio equipment simply by measuring price.

I think I already found a $4k DAC that is state of the art and provides "Real Live Music All of the Time" ... as long as I ignore the noise and distortion it generates.

There are some things that simply can not be measured. Amir should include a "Je ne sais quoi" rating for such superb offerings.

 

[PierreV]

People spend $50k on an F150 pickup and think nothing of it. I'm talking about serious audiophiles who are unlikely to be swindled. Here's the breakdown:

It is a truth universally acknowledged that "serious audiophiles" are never swindled. That is why they also go by the "discerning audiophile" moniker.

amplifiers: 24k

-> swindled.

preamp:6k

-> swindled

dac:4k

-> swindled

speakers:24k

-> penny pincher alert!

interconnects/cables:1k

-> swindled

That gives you what everybody wants Real Live Music All Of The Time.

-> delusional

my 2c

and you gave us your deep insight free of charge! Infinite ROI, thanks!

 

[Larry B. Larabee]

Good news I managed to pare it down to 55k
dac/pre 8k
amps 22k
speakers 24k
cables 1k
No holds barred sota. You're welcome.

 

[Geert]

What a shame you got no money left for a source and music.

 

[tmtomh]

What a shame you got no money left for a source and music.

On the bright side, now that he's gotten it down to $55k, he's only spending about $35-50k more than he needs to, instead of $60-75k.

 

[levimax]

RE: Singer in the room illusion. In general I find stereo to be like the old "3-d" viewers.... it adds some depth but also causes eye strain. The most convincing "singer in the room" illusion I get are from old mono recordings (not stereo fold downs) of a "girl and guitar" style of music. I turn off one speaker and move the other speaker to the center of the room. It creates a nice illusion without the brain struggling to create a "phantom center" from 2 point sources. I bet many have never tried listening to "real mono" with a "real mono" recording played on one speaker and would be surprised how well it works for some music (better than stereo or multi-channel).

 

[DimitryZ]

On the bright side, now that he's gotten it down to $55k, he's only spending about $35-50k more than he needs to, instead of $60-75k.

I had a $40k system. Now I have a $15k system that's better in every way. And it gets a lot more listening time.