The dream speaker thread

[ChrisH]

I am very close to my dream system right now. I just need some subwoofing to fill out the last few HZ . I use a DEQX to DSP my 3 way active system. All powered with class D amplifiers. Every time I play my stereo for the past 18 months I have my mind blown.

 

[oivavoi]

What are the odds? My monitors are ADM 9.1s. A couple of generations out of date and they still sound pretty good. No sub, though. In fact, the whole system is a hard drive full of files, an Apple TV and the AVIs. Controllable from my phone, iPad, laptop, or the Apple TV itself. Functionally, ergonomically, it is almost perfect. The lack of visual feedback for the pre is a pain sometimes.

Wow, cool! Didn't know we were more AVI-people in here...
I haven't heard the previous models. According to Ash the DM10 was a huge leap forwards, but then Ash is no stranger to hyperbole.

Oops...Looks like they've finally filled that gap: http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/7-series/705p#.WIjhbrGZMU0

Agreed... These look stunning!

 

[oivavoi]

I am very close to my dream system right now. I just need some subwoofing to fill out the last few HZ . I use a DEQX to DSP my 3 way active system. All powered with class D amplifiers. Every time I play my stereo for the past 18 months I have my mind blown.

Interesting. Care to say a bit more about your system?

 

[Sal1950]

Is there any objective logical argument a pair of fancy audiophile speakers ( like tad compact reference) combined with some fancy amps ( say dans momentum monoblocks) all linked up with Odin 2 cable achieve higher musical fidelity than these JBL 708P Studio Monitors?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Oops...Looks like they've finally filled that gap: http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/7-series/705p#.WIjhbrGZMU0

Tim

Interesting, I hadn't known these were out though there had been rumors of something in the pipeline the last year.

I wonder how JBL design targets differ for monitor style speakers vs something intended for a larger domestic listening room. I used some 305s in a large room and once paired with a good sized sub they did surprisingly well. They are however best used as the monitors they were designed to be. I did replace them in that room with some of the floorstanding Revels from a few years back. Moved the 305s to surround duty which they do well. In two channel mode the Revel was a better sounding solution in a larger room listening from 11 feet away. So while I think active is the way to go, and these with all the various inputs have more advantages even beyond just being active if you intend to use them in a larger room and not as monitors would you be better off to go with the similarly priced floor standing Revels? The Revels have been redesigned in the last 18 months as well.

 

[Dynamix]

Is there any objective logical argument a pair of fancy audiophile speakers ( like tad compact reference) combined with some fancy amps ( say dans momentum monoblocks) all linked up with Odin 2 cable achieve higher musical fidelity than these JBL 708P Studio Monitors?

Wizards and unicorns. And quantum tunneling.

 

[Vincent Kars]

Is there an actual product using that design someplace?

To the best of my knowledge; no
That's where dream speakers are about, isn't it?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Is there an actual product using that design someplace?

View attachment 5293

Well there is this Kronos dipole. And it made Michael Fremer almost faint it was so good.

http://kyronaudio.com.au/#!kronos/kronos.html

 

[fas42]

I wonder how JBL design targets differ for monitor style speakers vs something intended for a larger domestic listening room. I used some 305s in a large room and once paired with a good sized sub they did surprisingly well. They are however best used as the monitors they were designed to be. I did replace them in that room with some of the floorstanding Revels from a few years back. Moved the 305s to surround duty which they do well. In two channel mode the Revel was a better sounding solution in a larger room listening from 11 feet away. So while I think active is the way to go, and these with all the various inputs have more advantages even beyond just being active if you intend to use them in a larger room and not as monitors would you be better off to go with the similarly priced floor standing Revels? The Revels have been redesigned in the last 18 months as well.

Just curious - what in the specifications for the Revel, and those JBLs would tell the naive newcomer to the audio scene that the Revels are superior?

 

[fas42]

Well there is this Kronos dipole. And it made Michael Fremer almost faint it was so good.

http://kyronaudio.com.au/#!kronos/kronos.html

Heard its big brother, the Gaia, at an audio show - and wondered why it sounded so lacklustre, almost mediocre. Then I realised I hadn't read the spec sheet, so I could condition my mind to how good it must be ...

 

[oivavoi]

Active crossovers is obviously a superior and logical solution. I know that there is market demand etc, but still: Why does the industry stick with doing something that just peforms worse? I just can't get my head around it.

But: it's not the only thing that matters. There is also the quality of the drivers, the construction of the cabinet, the dispersion pattern, etc. My impression is also that passive crossovers create much more havoc in the lower price ranges. When you get to really expensive speakers, they seem to be able somehow to create passive crossovers which function better. Plus that very expensive speakers often are driven by very good amplifiers, and these amplifiers may manage the load of the passive crossovers better than budget amplifiers.

So I wouldn't necessarily assume that these JBLs would sound better than a pair of TADs which cost 100 times more. But the TADs would probably sound even better if they were driven actively.

 

[Dynamix]

Well there is this Kronos dipole. And it made Michael Fremer almost faint it was so good.

http://kyronaudio.com.au/#!kronos/kronos.html

Does anyone in their right mind actually take Michael Fremer seriously though?

That said, those might be pretty nice. Looks like Acoustic Elegance woofers and Scan Speak Illuminator mids?

 

[RayDunzl]

Well there is this Kronos dipole.

That wouldn't seem to be related to the Electrostatic Fluid Accelerator (EFA) speaker at all, other than it thinks it's a dipole, and the Kryon company (whoever they are) called it Kronos.

Somehow, I am less than wholly enthusiastic about cones and domes above the subwoofer range. Maybe some more exposure would help, but I remain very satisfied with the crappy old ML's I have been listening to for 21 years.

 

[Dynamix]

Active crossovers is obviously a superior and logical solution. I know that there is market demand etc, but still: Why does the industry stick with doing something that just peforms worse? I just can't get my head around it.

.

Because the audiophile market loves to "tweak". If you put speakers and amps in the same box, you remove the possibility to change amps, cables, fuses, cable risers, and whatever. It's as simple as that.

Actual performance is way down on the list for the average audiophile.

 

[RayDunzl]

Is there an actual product using that design someplace?

To the best of my knowledge; no
That's where dream speakers are about, isn't it?

Well, that's not very encouraging to my wakeful state for such an interestingly described design.

http://www.electrostatics.org/images/esa_2008_a2.pdf

https://www.google.com/patents/WO2007127810A2?cl=en

PATENT APPLICATION of
INVENTORS: IGOR A. KRICHTAFOVITCH
A Citizen of the Ukraine

Oh no, I hope he didn't get blowed up...

6827 1 17 Ave NE Kirkland, WA 98033

JACOB L. OHARAH
US Citizen 11051 35th Ave NE Seattle, WA 98125

VLADISLAV A. KOROLYOV
US Citizen
12615 SE 105 Pl.
Renton, WA 98056

NELS E. JEWELL-LARSEN
US Citizen
270 NW Armstrong Way Corvallis, OR 97330

SERGEY KARPOV A Citizen of Russian Federation
221 Gerry Rd Chestnut Hill, MA 02467 TITLE OF THE INVENTION

ELECTROSTATIC LOUDSPEAKER AND METHOD OF ACOUSTIC WAVES

Oh, he's safe in Washington.

Amir, please go check these guys out for me, they're in your neighborhood.

---

Oh double-no...

Applicant Kronos Advanced Technologies, Inc.

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/b.../kronos-advanced-technologies-shuts-down.html

 

[Dynamix]

Interesting. Care to say a bit more about your system?

I'd like to know more as well.

 

[fas42]

That wouldn't seem to be related to the Electrostatic Fluid Accelerator (EFA) speaker at all, other than it thinks it's a dipole, and the Kryon company (whoever they are) called it Kronos.

A mob from our part of the world, http://kyronaudio.com.au. If you're aiming for maximum WAF you can't do better than their big boys,

http://kyronaudio.com.au/#!gaia/gaia_specifications.html.

 

[oivavoi]

Because the audiophile market loves to "tweak". If you put speakers and amps in the same box, you remove the possibility to change amps, cables, fuses, cable risers, and whatever. It's as simple as that.

Actual performance is way down on the list for the average audiophile.

In our local Norwegian forum, the most honest old-school audiophiles actually say this straight out: They don't want it to be simple. It's not only about superior sound and getting music to sound great, it's about a journey, finding your way, etc etc. But most of them rationalize it of course, and claim that their only their golden ears can guide them to this elusive audio nirvana.

 

[Dynamix]

In our local Norwegian forum, the most honest old-school audiophiles actually say this straight out: They don't want it to be simple. It's not only about superior sound and getting music to sound great, it's about a journey, finding your way, etc etc. But most of them rationalize it of course, and claim that their only their golden ears can guide them to this elusive audio nirvana.

I know. And as long as you're actually honest about it, there's really nothing wrong with that. "Whatever floats your boat" and all that.

The problem is the guys who've convinced themselves that all the marketing speech and media hype is the one and only truth, and are desperately trying to turn their subjective impressions into objective facts. Those are the guys who will ensure that any actual progress is never going to be made in the world of "high end" audio, because they are clinging to the status quo, and are never going to pay cash money for anything else. Kinda sad really.

 

[oivavoi]

I know. And as long as you're actually honest about it, there's really nothing wrong with that. "Whatever floats your boat" and all that.

The problem is the guys who've convinced themselves that all the marketing speech and media hype is the one and only truth, and are desperately trying to turn their subjective impressions into objective facts. Those are the guys who will ensure that any actual progress is never going to be made in the world of "high end" audio, because they are clinging to the status quo, and are never going to pay cash money for anything else. Kinda sad really.

Yap. Agreed.