The diminishing returns and poor price to performance of $1000 gear

[Xulonn]

Everyone ear canal is different so it's a 5 answer question...The way the canal shaped can cause variation on how bass/mids/treble is perceived.

Don't forget that ear wax, although it is a good thing,...

Earwax, also known by the medical term cerumen, is a gray, orange, red or yellowish waxy substance secreted in the ear canal of humans and other mammals. It protects the skin of the human ear canal, assists in cleaning and lubrication, and also provides protection against bacteria, fungi, insects, and water.

...can cause problems if it builds up in your ear canals. Ear wax buildup varies in the amount, viscosity, and the ability of your body to "let it flow out" naturally. The amount of wax in your ear canals will definitely affect hearing as it effectively changes the shape of your ear canal - and narrows it. If you are serious about critical listening when evaluating speakers, headphones or IEMs, you should always make sure you do not have wax "plugs" present that are reducing the area or blocking your ear canals.

In my case, I have smaller than average canals, and periodically need to flush out what I call a "wax worm." It costs $55 for an ear cleaning by the local doctor, but I normally use Debrox (carbamide peroxide) followed with a warm alcohol/water solution flush using an ear syringe. I usually get several tiny bits of hard wax and a bigger "plug", and my hearing improves immediately.

(Be sure to check with your doctor before self-cleaning and flushing to make sure you have no problems or abnormalities that would make unsafe for you to clean your own ears. I was a hospital corpsman assigned to the EENT (Eye, Ear, Nose and Throat) clinic at the Oakland California Naval Hospital in the mid 1960's, and I am familiar with the configration and condition of my ears.)

 

[frogmeat69]

Are they?
View attachment 32278

To my ears with the cipher cable or the Reveal plugin, yes, they are.

 

[Tks]

i'm intrigued. I don't get to use my iems much. if I find a pair of these kanas pro - how big a step up from my pinnacle p1's are they?

Sound-wise. Not a clue. Comfort-wise personally, eons ahead. Companies simply fail to understand having proper insertion that doesn't bleed the IEM out of your ear over time is mandatory.

 

[jonfitch]

For iems, definitely, since these are milliwatt devices that require barely any output plugged directly into the ear canal, so most of the physics problems in loudspeakers are non-existent. The margins are insanely high on portable stuff, these are basically lifestyle products.

 

[Damian]

Lol Campfire. They're like Rolex, if Rolex could only sell submariners from the 60's, and didn't have any certifications like COSC or such.

They chose to sell to audiophools (with their silly cables, which actually sucked yet still cost quite a bit, of which are only now getting refreshes as of late), and when measurement folks got ahold of their IEM's every single one of them have been failures in one form or another on the market since the Andromedas. The only reason the Andromeda had staying power, is that was a time where not much measuring was going on, so the prestige had settled-in with their regular repeat customers who also enjoy showing off their halo product on various social media and such, and as such they've tried not messing with that forumla too much.

The only reason the Andromeda isn't $300, is due to the aluminum casing (which in my opinion actually sucked as much as the idiotic design choice for Audeze LCD-line of headbands), the US-based operation, and the decent warranty.

They should try throwing some money at R&D + QC'ing for driver consistency, and driver channel matching tbh. I've heard 3 pairs, each once had one of these "flaws" in some form or another.

It's laughable it took them this long to attempt to mitigate the issue with the annodization chipping for example (idiotic highly angular/sharp corners of the IEM), and their pathetic nozzle length basically requiring foam tips be used if you want proper deep insertion that doesn't have them sliding out of your ear.

I could go on with various cable complaints, questionable sensitivity levels, and more.. (at $1000 for an IEM, yes I will be grilling everything). Instead I saved myself the headache, and got something I don't have concerns with, know performs better, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Only problem for future folks.. They discontinued them (as is usually the case with half decent products).

Moondrop Kanas Pro. I'm still waiting to see anything that has consistent measurements/more comfortable/ergonomic/better looking, at the price. (Sadly replaced by the worse designed Moondrop KXXS but still a very good IEM compared to others generally speaking).



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You seem to speak with resentment. Andromedas are the only IEM I’ve tried that can compete with over the ear TOTL. Could be expensive but haven’t found anything better yet.

 

[Tks]

Irrespective of how I speak, their shortcomings aren't erased.

And as for better, I spoke of the Moondrop's. Better measurements, and better ergonomics. The looks I like better as well but that is completely subjective so it's not worth even mentioning as I just did.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Are they?
View attachment 32278

He said with cypher cable which has eq built in. Read tyll's review for more detail.
Also Oratory's measurements are inaccurate tho i don't know exactly why that is. Probably due to combination of old coupler and new pinna.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Linear bass response in headphones is not a "neutral response". You need to compensate the lack of room gain and whole-body vibrations.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../etymotic-versus-audiophila.7958/#post-193301
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/acoustic-basis-harman-listener-target-curve

Etymotic has room response. See goldenears for more detail. Etymotic's room response has roll off after 2khz, -5db at 10khz. If you use small room x curve or b&k hifi inroom response recommendation you will see that etymotic follows pretty close. No other headphones or earphones are as good. Especially in the 8khz+ range for the in ear response instead of the "measured" response.

 

[snowsurfer]

Moondrop Kanas Pro. I'm still waiting to see anything that has consistent measurements/more comfortable/ergonomic/better looking, at the price. (Sadly replaced by the worse designed Moondrop KXXS but still a very good IEM compared to others generally speaking).

I love my Kanas Pros but the metal is giving me a slight allergy on my earlobes, I start scratching like crazy after 20-30 minutes. Would be great if they could come up with the exact same design but in a different material. I also consider the KXXS at least a sidegrade, if not a direct downgrade.

 

[Tks]

I love my Kanas Pros but the metal is giving me a slight allergy on my earlobes, I start scratching like crazy after 20-30 minutes. Would be great if they could come up with the exact same design but in a different material. I also consider the KXXS at least a sidegrade, if not a direct downgrade.

I got lucky, and is why I really like them. Their shape basically has zero contact with my ears, the only thing touching is the cable holding the IEM, and the foam tips. The metal itself touches no part of my ear.

The scratching, that's normal for any IEM, our ears don't take too kindly with something shoved them down.

 

[maxxevv]

your main point is the most important one, finding something that works for you and sticking with it. regardless of what others think of it or you read about it.

i myself find the HD800 to be incredibly overrated. I've owned it twice. I think it is absurd that a halo product like that requires significant modification and EQ to not cause so much treble fatigue. People mod them and buy tube amps for them just to try to tame a treble peak. When you do get them in-line to where they are not fatiguing, they lose most their magic. they still have a brilliant sound stage but after you do a SDR mod and EQ them, their imaging is no more than slightly above average. i find them more comfortable than the 6XX line since the clamping is more distributed, but I still do not like where the bottom of the ear cups grab below my ear and top of my bottom jaw.

Its highly dependent on the SPL you listen to the HD800 at. At about 82~84dB, its pretty balanced with a rather even FR curve. Its bass is pretty low down once are you below 72dB SPL. Making it sound treble high and bass thin. Also, the large cups don't fit all heads well. Especially for people with smaller skulls or more curved bone structures behind the ear lobes, causing leaks, and again causing it to sound "peaky".

I'm fortunate that I don't have either of these issues and I find the HD800 very good without any EQ.

This is what @solderdude shared with me with regards to the HD800, showing the FR curve at different SPL outputs.

 

[wadec22]

Its highly dependent on the SPL you listen to the HD800 at. At about 82~84dB, its pretty balanced with a rather even FR curve. Its bass is pretty low down once are you below 72dB SPL. Making it sound treble high and bass thin. Also, the large cups don't fit all heads well. Especially for people with smaller skulls or more curved bone structures behind the ear lobes, causing leaks, and again causing it to sound "peaky".

I'm fortunate that I don't have either of these issues and I find the HD800 very good without any EQ.

This is what @solderdude shared with me with regards to the HD800, showing the FR curve at different SPL outputs.

View attachment 33709

while I won't disagree with fit issues, I find it sibilant and painful at all volumes. I find this frequency graph confirms that - same as the other measurements over at SBAF. Believe me, I've owned it twice for a total of about 18 months. For some of us, it hurts our ears all the time, at all volumes.

I'm glad it works for you, that is what it is all about. However, I think more people are closer to my end of the spectrum. It is why there are countless posts & threads on modding it, amp & dac pairings for it and finally Sennheiser's release of the 800s.

I stand by my assessment of it being a broken product - especially as a TOTL headphone.

 

[Erik]

He said with cypher cable which has eq built in. Read tyll's review for more detail.
Also Oratory's measurements are inaccurate tho i don't know exactly why that is. Probably due to combination of old coupler and new pinna.

Are they inaccurate because they contradict your anecdotal opinion? What about Crinacle measurements, are they inaccurate too?

The Cipher cable helps for sure, but they still have problems in the upper range.

Etymotic has room response. See goldenears for more detail. Etymotic's room response has roll off after 2khz, -5db at 10khz. If you use small room x curve or b&k hifi inroom response recommendation you will see that etymotic follows pretty close. No other headphones or earphones are as good. Especially in the 8khz+ range for the in ear response instead of the "measured" response.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../etymotic-versus-audiophila.7958/#post-193301

 

[solderdude]

Is there really a +20dB peak at 15kHz ?

 

[Erik]

You seem to speak with resentment. Andromedas are the only IEM I’ve tried that can compete with over the ear TOTL. Could be expensive but haven’t found anything better yet.

That's just your opinion. The reality here is that Andromedas can't compete even with cheap Chinese IEMs.

 

[Erik]

Is there really a +20dB peak at 15kHz ?

The compensation curve ends at 13 kHz.

 

[solderdude]

Makes sense.
If I were him I would grey out the part he doesn't compensate.

 

[Drone/doom]

That's just your opinion. The reality here is that Andromedas can't compete even with cheap Chinese IEMs.

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So you reading charts means more than someone who tried headphones in person?. That borderline trolling since i notice you do it as well when the Etymotic ER4S is brought up, That like saying the Grado SR225e sucks vs the HD600 because the SR225 reaches 3% THD. Yet that doesn't hurt its level of detail/clarity same with the 1% rated ER4XR's when people listen to music on them.

 

[Damian]

So you reading charts means more than someone who tried headphones in person?. That borderline trolling since i notice you do it as well when the Etymotic ER4S is brought up, That like saying the Grado SR225e sucks vs the HD600 because the SR225 reaches 3% THD. Yet that doesn't hurt its level of detail/clarity same with the 1% rated ER4XR's when people listen to music on them.

He might be used to other forums... angry disrespectful person in general.

 

[Drone/doom]

He might be used to other forums... angry disrespectful person in general.

Reddit had that issue with few thinking charts mean more than listening to headphones. Totally ignoring that headphone measurements are only part of the story, The ER4S and ER4SR look the same FR wise yet they have mild sound differences that a chart would never convey. Really love how he thinks EQ can turn overhyped chi fi IEM's into $1000 andro killers.