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The criticisms that people have of this site are ridiculous. People can be a little worrisome.

SimpleTheater

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The problem these people have with Amirm’s testing is legitimate. His audio tests fail to show what these people are seeing with their own two eyes. It’s a Schitt, so how can it not measure at the top of the rankings?




Never sure if I have to use the </sarcasm> when I post.
 

FrantzM

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There is a proverb from my home country that is so appropriate : "You throw rocks only at ripe mangoes...

Explanation: Mango trees are often tall ... To get the mangoes you have two choices:
1) Climb the trees and pick the ripe ones. There is some danger in that
2) Throw rock at the ripe ones and knock them down...

Throwing rocks in such a way not to damage the fruit requires some effort and skills. Don't waste your time on unripe, i-e unworthy things...

Audiophiles of all creeds are taking notice ... even those who can hear the sound of Ethernet cables. There are now several High End Audio companies that are Schiiting in their pants dreading the day when some random owner send her/his product to ASR for testing.
On that I congratulate the person who sent the Total Crap ....err DAC for testing .
 
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Wombat

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Face to face communication is very different to that experienced on forums. The latter is somewhat impersonal and interpersonal nuances are lost.
Postings need to be clear in meaning, up front, to avoid misinterpretations and cumbersome clarifications and diversions. This requires a more considered approach to postings than in day-to-day conversation.
 

Jorj

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I don't really like the religious versus atheist analogy. At least where I live people of different religious and philosophical bents are next door neighbors and get along just fine. I guess it's the online dynamic that we're seeing play out here?

The reason I said it was quasi-religious is simply due to the distinct similarities in philosophy. Call it an analogy with ASR = atheist and SBAF = theist. ASR demands data and falsifiable claims. Most folks here appreciate subjective reviews only at a superficial level. The exact opposite is the case at SBAF, with the subjective review being held ascendant over test results, and if the data gets out of line with dogma, then data loses.

I honestly tried to get along with them, and got banned almost instantly for suggesting that it was deceptive to assert that the human ear could perceive some aspect of music reproduction that test equipment cannot. This challenges their established dogma. You won't find that level of dogma here. You will find contributors here that have a much higher level of expertise in the field and, while it might seem dogmatic, their resistance to frilly claims of subjective superiority would be quickly walked back if any reproducible data and corresponding theoretical explanation supporting that claim could be produced. I am still waiting, just as I wait for one theism to display any kind of validity that might raise it over the thousands of others.
 

FrantzM

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There was an outfit selling a directional Ethernet cable for your NAS. I think the guys over at Ars Technica went through that one. Very funny.
Don't get me started on this please ...

Audiophile Switches and Routers are commonplace in such sites .... Here is a review

A snippet:
Once I plugged the TLS OCXO switch in – I realized just how much of an impact an audiophile switch could make in a system. It is a huge step in fidelity. It has all the qualities of the other switches – and more. Almost like the Captain Marvel of ethernet switches. It’s quiet, warmblooded, articulate, resolving, dynamic, and offers up the perfect amount of vibrancy.
 

Wombat

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The reason I said it was quasi-religious is simply due to the distinct similarities in philosophy. Call it an analogy with ASR = atheist and SBAF = theist. ASR demands data and falsifiable claims. Most folks here appreciate subjective reviews only at a superficial level. The exact opposite is the case at SBAF, with the subjective review being held ascendant over test results, and if the data gets out of line with dogma, then data loses.

I honestly tried to get along with them, and got banned almost instantly for suggesting that it was deceptive to assert that the human ear could perceive some aspect of music reproduction that test equipment cannot. This challenges their established dogma. You won't find that level of dogma here. You will find contributors here that have a much higher level of expertise in the field and, while it might seem dogmatic, their resistance to frilly claims of subjective superiority would be quickly walked back if any reproducible data and corresponding theoretical explanation supporting that claim could be produced. I am still waiting, just as I wait for one theism to display any kind of validity that might raise it over the thousands of others.

Audio has its own claim to being an -ism in some quarters by dint of belief without verifiable foundation. So the comparison with religion is not to be discounted so readily.
 

anmpr1

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Here's the difference between how a scientifically 'grounded' audiophile and a 'tweako' audiophile think:

a) Hmmm... if I'm using Fast Ethernet to stream, and only utilizing half the twisted strand pairs in my cable, then why should I pay for all that extra wire in my Cat 5?

b) If only the twisted strands were heavier gauge, and terminated with gold plated green kyrptonite plugs, the mids should be more liquid, and those harsh digital highs would be softened... might firm up the lower bass, too.
 

Dialectic

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a.) Stay away from SBAF if you have a weak stomach &
b.) If you must go there, get inoculated against logical fallacies, technobabble and personal insults.

I have a strong stomach, so I went to SBAF last night. Unlike the threads here in ASR, the SBAF threads are very difficult to follow. I think it's fair to say I'm not a dumb guy, but I had no idea what was going on in most of the threads I read. The measurement guy at SBAF, "atomicbob," posts measurements but doesn't believe they tell him much of importance about audio devices. It raises the question why he is doing such measurements, other than to attempt to discredit Amir. He also touts his work measuring "audio systems for Class 3 medical devices."

The ringleader and head moderator at SBAF calls himself "purr1n" or "Merv" or "Marv." He appeared in a video some years ago with Tyll Hertsens. Despite his mild-mannered appearance in the video, he's extraordinarily nasty to ASR and to Amir on Superbestaudiofriends, speculating, among other things, that Amir botches his measurements to hurt the Schiit company. The measurements of the Topping D30 DAC struck a particular nerve:

Fuck you Amir. The Topping D30 DAC sounds like shit. Waste of money​

Purr1n also allows transparently racist vitriol to be directed toward Amir on SBAF.

Usually, people who behave this way on the internet do so anonymously. Not so with purr1n. He has been on a number of forums, and there's a video with him. His online identity is associated with his full name on a number of forums. In real life, he appears to be a regular guy with a job. Like a google search of most of us, a google search of him will quickly show you where he works.

I certainly hope that no one who finds purr1n/Merv/Marv's online behavior distasteful emails his employer with evidence of what he does on the internet. I have had colleagues who have gotten into trouble (occasionally high-profile, newsworthy trouble) by posting nasty stuff on the internet, usually about politics. It would be unfortunate if purr1n/Merv/Marv's posts--about audio of all things--were to hurt his career.
 

Thomas savage

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When you piss on kids chips you can expect some crying.

(snip) It would be unfortunate if purr1n/Merv/Marv's posts--about audio of all things--were to hurt his career.
Umm, unfortunate ... Oops ( presses send)
 

Jorj

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I have a strong stomach, so I went to SBAF last night. Unlike the threads here in ASR, the SBAF threads are very difficult to follow.

I apologize, did not mean my statements about SBAF to be taken as a challenge. The time you spent ingesting that website probably could have used more productively organizing your FLAC library or just listening intently to some tunes.

In all seriousness, that site has more than its fair-share of toxic discourse and as I said before, should be avoided unless you have a strong stomach. And yes, Marv is one of the, if not the, worst offender.
 

Rusty Shackleford

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I have a strong stomach, so I went to SBAF last night. Unlike the threads here in ASR, the SBAF threads are very difficult to follow. I think it's fair to say I'm not a dumb guy, but I had no idea what was going on in most of the threads I read. The measurement guy at SBAF, "atomicbob," posts measurements but doesn't believe they tell him much of importance about audio devices. It raises the question why he is doing such measurements, other than to attempt to discredit Amir. He also touts his work measuring "audio systems for Class 3 medical devices."

The ringleader and head moderator at SBAF calls himself "purr1n" or "Merv" or "Marv." He appeared in a video some years ago with Tyll Hertsens. Despite his mild-mannered appearance in the video, he's extraordinarily nasty to ASR and to Amir on Superbestaudiofriends, speculating, among other things, that Amir botches his measurements to hurt the Schiit company. The measurements of the Topping D30 DAC struck a particular nerve:



Purr1n also allows transparently racist vitriol to be directed toward Amir on SBAF.

Usually, people who behave this way on the internet do so anonymously. Not so with purr1n. He has been on a number of forums, and there's a video with him. His online identity is associated with his full name on a number of forums. In real life, he appears to be a regular guy with a job. Like a google search of most of us, a google search of him will quickly show you where he works.

I certainly hope that no one who finds purr1n/Merv/Marv's online behavior distasteful emails his employer with evidence of what he does on the internet. I have had colleagues who have gotten into trouble (occasionally high-profile, newsworthy trouble) by posting nasty stuff on the internet, usually about politics. It would be unfortunate if purr1n/Merv/Marv's posts--about audio of all things--were to hurt his career.

Seriously, get a life. People are allowed to have strong opinions on the internet. If you disagree with Marv, fine. But trying to get him fired for having opinions about audio is immature and pathetic. Also, the post you linked to is not “racist.” (Also, taking offense to that post when plenty of offensive posts here at ASR are tolerated is rich.)
 

BasicConcern

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Seriously, get a life. People are allowed to have strong opinions on the internet. If you disagree with Marv, fine. But trying to get him fired for having opinions about audio is immature and pathetic. Also, the post you linked to is not “racist.” (Also, taking offense to that post when plenty of offensive posts here at ASR are tolerated is rich.)

SBAF wen't out there to harass people of site when people where questioning them. Why are you saying get life when your only showing 1 moron here. lol

SBAF is banned at head fi because they harassed the crap out of 1 dude opinion in a thread there, its urban myth that it was over a bitter feud

Strong opinions?, The dude has spent years shitting on anyone who has differing opinion like favouring Grado or stuff like Topping/Fiio. The guys charts are very dodgy on being valid since he won't tell anyone his test rig and when he did give hints on what it is, it was missing important stuff.

There having opinion but being a prick about won't get you very far, Since that site is pretty much dying these days. Same with current /r/headphones.
 

Rusty Shackleford

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SBAF wen't out there to harass people of site when people where questioning them. Why are you saying get life when your only showing 1 moron here. lol

SBAF is banned at head fi because they harassed the crap out of 1 dude opinion in a thread there, its urban myth that it was over a bitter feud

Strong opinions?, The dude has spent years shitting on anyone who has differing opinion like favouring Grado or stuff like Topping/Fiio. The guys charts are very dodgy on being valid since he won't tell anyone his test rig and when he did give hints on what it is, it was missing important stuff.

There having opinion but being a prick about won't get you very far, Since that site is pretty much dying these days. Same with current /r/headphones.

Disagreeing strongly with people over what headphones sound good isn’t reason for the people he disagrees with to contact his employer. Grow up.

And his test rig is discussed on the site. It’s AverLAB.
 

maxxevv

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Etymotic IEM's loved by nearly everyone, there are allot objective companies and much more. The whole ignorant audiophile is just a small sub group that taints everything. Blame head fi for popularising that attitude since they have a ABX free rule out of sound science area.

I must be one of the exceptions then. I just don't enjoy their earphone offerings.
 

Jorj

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All issues with personal attacks and just plain meanness aside, this is the kind of thing that bothers me about SBAF.

What Marv states is that beyond a certain point, standard audio measurement metrics are mostly irrelevant. At some level, I agree with this, we've long since figured out and exceeded the minimum test standards by which a bit of audio kit can be heard to be coloring or degrading sound reproduction. What he implies is that only human ears can hear these ineffable (time domain, spatial cues, microdynamics) improvements that anachronistic architectures like R+2R can provide better than D\S. It is with no trace of irony that he claims that there are no extant methodologies for measuring and documenting these qualities, while simultaneously shitting on ABX and anyone who is skeptical of his assertions. He's got good cronies in Stoddard & Moffat who simply smile, nod and wink knowingly when that community is raving about the plankton that the latest Schiit box has resurrected from their FLAC files, but never go so far as to really display any theoretical or empirical proofs of what they do better. Not saying Schiit is shit, they have gear that sounds good, too, but if you wanna say "it's better", some substantial whitherto's and whyfor's are in order.

I guess what I'm saying is that they come off as all science-based and rational at first, but if you scratch their surface, it's the same thing as all the other audiophoolery sites, minus the burden of slobbering on the highest-cost audio jewelry. Still, challenge their claims and they'll get mean.
 

BasicConcern

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Disagreeing strongly with people over what headphones sound good isn’t reason for the people he disagrees with to contact his employer. Grow up.

And his test rig is discussed on the site. It’s AverLAB.

Did you ignore that they have history over harassing people who like stuff they hate?. Why are you defending a known creep and telling others to shut up?,

I must be one of the exceptions then. I just don't enjoy their earphone offerings.

Yeah that why i said nearly, i don't like bassy headphones i just like the bright/analytical sound the ER4S/SR give. That why i don't get the love for the HD650 and others which cripple mids/highs quality. Also why i don't touch my Shure SRH1540 i got way back.
 
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